Discuss HPDH and Books 1-6 here, To keep spoilers from the non-spoiler threads Options

[Dijares]

Here you can discuss books 1 through 6 here, along with HPDH. This way you can keep the spoilers from the non-spoiler forums.

This is the ONLY place you can do this. I will not allowed new topics to be started regarding the previous books. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hat.gif)

[Witherwings]

Here you can discuss books 1 through 6 here, along with HPDH. This way you can keep the spoilers from the non-spoiler forums.

This is the ONLY place you can do this. I will not allowed new topics to be started regarding the previous books. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hat.gif)

Thanks! Okay, so here are a few things that struck me as I was reading the re-reading all the books up to the last book:

So, how old is McGonagall? I'm beginning to wonder if she's not as old as, or older than, Dumbeldore. In book six she tells Neville that his grandmother didn't do well on her OWL in Charms. I'm assuming McGonagall is either a friend of his grandmother's or, better still, his grandmother's teacher/head of house (let's assume Neville's grandmother, like his parents, were indeed in Gryffindor). If she's as old as or older than, it wouldn't be odd because Professor Marchbanks actually examined him in his NEWTs showing us that witches and wizards can live to be far older than DD's age at death (and we know he was ancient). And we know there's concern for her age when she's hit by the four stunners in book five (but the characters probably would never have said the same thing about DD).

When did Umbridge get the locket? There's the scene in OotP where Umbridge touches Harry's hand and he feels Voldemort's joy, which is later explained as coinciental. But do we know if she didn't have the locket before book seven? The last we see of the locket is the summer cleaning which means Mundungus could have swiped it over the summer, Umbridge bought it before the start of term, and then was wearing it throughout the school year? I'm not saying she wasn't evil all along, because JK even confirms that the locket agrees with her. I'm just questioning if the locket was on her in book five, specifically at the moment she touched Harry.

Why was Amelia Bones killed? I'm assuming that it is because she was one of the witches to let Harry go, and one who was fascinated by Harry's powers in book five. I was hoping to learn a little bit more about her because in book six, we learn she's a very powerful witch and Harry seems a bit upset that she is dead.

In book six we learn that the DADA position held by Merrythought was up for grabs when LV first left Hogwarts at the age of 18. Why, then, was it open again when he returned just a few short years later? The curse LV put on the position didn't begin until he was refused the position by DD.

In book five we learn that the twins only got three OWLS each. I'm thinking their OWLS were in transfiguration, charms, and potions because those would be the most helpful to their business.

In book six, we learn that Lily has a nack for potions making. I'm curious if she was trained and tutored by Snape and that is why she is so wonderful. Could this be part of Snape's resentment of Harry through books one-five while he's in potions? And why he's angry that he has become a natural at potions in book six? She betrayed his love for James after all the assistance he gave her.

In book five, we learn that Tonks' head of house used to laugh at her. I believe she refers to the head of house as a "he". I'm curioius which house Tonks was in and when she was in school (assuming after Harry's parents and prior to Harry attending himself). So I figured her head of house could be either Flitwick or Snape, which means she's either a Ravenclaw or a Slytherin.

Neither Slughorn nor Trelawney are attacked by the end of book seven despite book 6 indicating that they were both in danger. It's obvious now that DD went to get Slughorn to fill the post of Potions master so that he could validate Snape moving into the position for DADA It's also obvious that Snape would have blocked Harry from taking NEWT potions which would have prevented him from taking the position. However, it's interesting that Snape it tutoring Crabbe and Goyle in DADA so that they can take their OWLs again (page 324 of HBP). I didn't know students were able to take their OWLs more than once, in which case, why didn't the Weasley twins take their failed ones over?

Now that the horcruxes have been discussed openly, will the school continue to ban them from discussion? In book six, we're told that DD himself made sure that anything containing information on horcruxes was removed. But would it be a banned or taboo subject now that Voldemort has created them and they've been destroyed?

One final question, in books four through seven, the pensieve is exceptionally important. In books four through six, DD puts a lot of thoughts into the Pensieve. In book five, Snape does the same. In book seven, Harry puts Snape's thoughts in the pensieve. Wouldn't it be dangerous to just leave all of these thoughts in the school?

This post has been edited by Witherwings: Aug 17 2007, 01:05 AM

[KBell]

Now that the horcruxes have been discussed openly, will the school continue to ban them from discussion? In book six, we're told that DD himself made sure that anything containing information on horcruxes was removed. But would it be a banned or taboo subject now that Voldemort has created them and they've been destroyed?

I'm not sure that anyone except the trio still know about the Horcruxes; I mean, Harry never confided in anyone else about them and didn't tell Neville why he had to kill Nagini.

One final question, in books four through seven, the pensieve is exceptionally important. In books four through six, DD puts a lot of thoughts into the Pensieve. In book five, Snape does the same. In book seven, Harry puts Snape's thoughts in the pensieve. Wouldn't it be dangerous to just leave all of these thoughts in the school?

I guess they take the thoughts out and put them back in their heads at the end of the sessions.

[Witherwings]

I'm not sure that anyone except the trio still know about the Horcruxes; I mean, Harry never confided in anyone else about them and didn't tell Neville why he had to kill Nagini.

Except that Harry mentions them outloud while he's battling Voldemort. And Slughorn certainly knew what he was talking about.

I guess they take the thoughts out and put them back in their heads at the end of the sessions.

I guess. I can't really figure out the pensieve. Do they return the thoughts to their head? I mean, certainly Harry isn't able to put Snape's memories back into Snape's head after the battle is over.

Here's another question: Did Snape really want DADA? I don't think he did. In books one through five, he seems to revel in potions making and in book six, we learn he was the master potions maker, correcting the book frequently. Why, then, wouldn't he really want the potions position?

This post has been edited by Witherwings: Aug 16 2007, 06:34 PM

[quarkwright]

When did Umbridge get the locket? There's the scene in OotP where Umbridge touches Harry's hand and he feels Voldemort's joy, which is later explained as coinciental. But do we know if she didn't have the locket before book seven? The last we see of the locket is the summer cleaning which means Mundungus could have swiped it over the summer, Umbridge bought it before the start of term, and then was wearing it throughout the school year? I'm not saying she wasn't evil all along, because JK even confirms that the locket agrees with her. I'm just questioning if the locket was on her in book five, specifically at the moment she touched Harry.

A brilliant deduction! It makes perfect sense, I wish it had occured to me as I re-read OotP right after finishing DH.

Neither Slughorn nor Trelawney are attacked by the end of book seven despite book 6 indicating that they were both in danger. It's obvious now that DD went to get Slughorn to fill the post of Potions master so that he could validate Snape moving into the position for DADA (which, btw, how did Crabbe and Goyle do well on their OWLs in this particular subject?). It's also obvious that Snape would have blocked Harry from taking NEWT potions which would have prevented him from taking the position.

Neither Trelawny nor Slughorn were mentioned much in DH. Maybe Jo had plans for them that had to be trimmed to keep the story from wandering too far?
And Crabbe and Goyle, being death-eaters-in-training, likely got plenty of practice in using curses - more than enough for them to have a thorough grounding in Dark Arts, and by etension, going well in DADA.

Now that the horcruxes have been discussed openly, will the school continue to ban them from discussion? In book six, we're told that DD himself made sure that anything containing information on horcruxes was removed. But would it be a banned or taboo subject now that Voldemort has created them and they've been destroyed?

I think Horcruxes were likely a topic that DD wished to make unavailable for reasons not related to Tom Riddle/Voldemort. They were part of the darkest of the dark arts, their creation beyond all but the most corrupt dark wizards. He likely wanted to discourage the desire of any students to consider making or using them - such actions being almost irredeemable.

[Dijares]

When did Umbridge get the locket? There's the scene in OotP where Umbridge touches Harry's hand and he feels Voldemort's joy, which is later explained as coinciental. But do we know if she didn't have the locket before book seven? The last we see of the locket is the summer cleaning which means Mundungus could have swiped it over the summer, Umbridge bought it before the start of term, and then was wearing it throughout the school year? I'm not saying she wasn't evil all along, because JK even confirms that the locket agrees with her. I'm just questioning if the locket was on her in book five, specifically at the moment she touched Harry.

Umbridge got the locket, according to Mundungus, when he was trying to sell it. She didn't buy it; she 'acquired' it - took it from him. One can assume that the evil within it called to her. But no specific time was ever stated. But, I'm pretty sure it was after the death eaters started taking over, as that was when the ministry really started being so bullying. If she had it during book 5, she would have worn it then, I'm sure. Again, the evilness was attracted to her, and vice versa.

When she touched Harry, she didn't feel anything. She touched his hand that was etched with 'I must not tell lies', and she thought it hurt him, which suited her. When, actually, he had jumped because he had a connection at the same time with V.

[Hermy]

I never really thought Snape wanted the DADA post -- it always rang of gossip and rumor to me. Everyone just ASSUMED he was lusting after it because they knew his Death Eater past, and Snape and DD allowed the rumors to continue in order to help him maintain his cover when it was needed. But he never actually does or says anything (to my recollection) to confirm his alleged great desire to be DADA teacher.

The thoughts in the Pensieve thing is a good point...but I guess if it's safely locked up in the headmaster's office very few people would have access to it.

I assume the Weasley twins wouldn't have cared to re-take their failed OWLS even if it was an option, because they didn't seem to care too much about school in general. After all, they did drop out, and did just fine without their degrees, OWLS, or NEWTS. I think you'd only need those if you were going on to a career with, say, the Ministry of Magic, or some field which required them.

[Witherwings]

Four new things I noticed in book six:

First, when burying Aragog, Hagrid said he never had anything to do with Slughorn. However, if Hagrid was a) student with Voldemort and b ) groundskeeper even when the Weasleys and Potters attended school (while Slughorn was still teaching), wouldn't Hagrid have interacted with Slughorn regularly? Especially as a student with Voldemort - he would have had his potions class as it's a mandatory subject from first year on.

Second, in book six, when talking about horcruxes, DD is adamant that there Voldemort only ever made six horcruxes with the last part of his soul (the seventh) residing in his body. How, then, does he change from telling Harry this to telling Snape something different in book seven? And if he's been honest with Harry all along and told him everything, why didn't he tell him in book six?

Third, in book six, when talking about Nagini as a horcrux, DD said that LV used Nagini to kill an old muggle man. Did this happen in any of the books? I wasn't aware that it had. I know it's not Frank the caretaker in book four because he was killed by the avada kadavra (there's a jet of green light before Harry wakes up).

Lastly: If Voldemort could fly, why was there a boat in the sixth book? DD says that it's so that Voldemort can reach the island.

This post has been edited by Witherwings: Aug 17 2007, 01:40 PM

[Nossist]

When Harry's parents are killed, if Sirius really cared for Harry why doesnt he go and get him instead of Hagrid? Or is it because Sirius didnt know Harry survived?

[Witherwings]

When Harry's parents are killed, if Sirius really cared for Harry why doesnt he go and get him instead of Hagrid? Or is it because Sirius didnt know Harry survived?

We are told in book three that Sirius did go for Harry but that Hagrid got there first under the orders of Dumbeldore. Sirius wanted to take Harry, but Hagrid said he was under DD's orders so Sirius didn't fight it. Sirius lent him the motorbike in order to deliver Harry to DD.

[the_prisoner_of_...]

I'm assuming McGonagall is either a friend of his grandmother's or, better still, his grandmother's teacher/head of house (let's assume Neville's grandmother, like his parents, were indeed in Gryffindor).

When I read that I thought they might have been in the same age group at Hogwarts. I mean looking at it they were both probably in Gryfindor. So perhaps they sat their exams together.

We are told in book three that Sirius did go for Harry but that Hagrid got there first under the orders of Dumbeldore. Sirius wanted to take Harry, but Hagrid said he was under DD's orders so Sirius didn't fight it. Sirius lent him the motorbike in order to deliver Harry to DD.

I think Sirius also knew that he was the only one who knew about the switch in secret keepers, so he thought it would only be a matter of time before Dumbledore or the Order came looking for him. Taking Harry, would have made him look even more guilty, but i guess leaving him there would have done the same. But yes, Hagrid got there first.

[Witherwings]

When I read that I thought they might have been in the same age group at Hogwarts. I mean looking at it they were both probably in Gryfindor. So perhaps they sat their exams together.

I thought that too. But since it's a bit open-ended, it would be interesting to find out. Since JK said McGonagall's getting up there, perhaps she really was Neville's gran's teacher. Would be a cool thing. However, I also realize that, given the ages wizards and witches could live, McGonagall could have taught Neville's gran without being too ancient. If we assume she had Neville's father by 25 and then Neville's father had him at 25 (late age estimates mind you), McGonagall could be (assuming she began teaching at 17 and in Neville's gran's last year) about 84 by the end of the book (which, by wizarding standards, isn't that old).

I think Sirius also knew that he was the only one who knew about the switch in secret keepers, so he thought it would only be a matter of time before Dumbledore or the Order came looking for him. Taking Harry, would have made him look even more guilty, but i guess leaving him there would have done the same. But yes, Hagrid got there first.

True. DD did say he gave evidence against Sirius during the trial that he was the Potter's Secret-Keeper. What's interesting, now that the book is over, that DD's quote in book seven upon seeing Severus (something like, "they put their trust in the wrong person") was about Sirius (since DD obviously believed Sirius is the one who betrayed the Potters).

EDIT: I just realized something. If DD, Bathilda Bagshot, etc. knew where the Potter's were after they went into hiding, wouldn't they have to have been told by Wormtail? Therefore, DD would have known that Wormtail was, in fact, the Secret-Keeper (no?).

This post has been edited by Witherwings: Aug 20 2007, 06:21 PM

[Merme]

I just reread Book 1. In general I am so impressed by how JKR truly seemed to write the 7 books as a whole and all the things she set up in the beginning that connect to the end, particularly the trip to Gringotts, getting the invisibility cloak, and the wandlore.

One thing that seemed inconsistent and left me wondering was at the end. DD gave Harry the opportunity to ask him some questions. DD said he would tell the truth, but might not answer everything. One thing DD told Harry was that he thought Snape worked so hard to protect Harry that year to re-pay James for saving his life, so he could go back to hating James. After reading DH I thought Snape worked so hard to protect Harry because of his love and respect for Lily. Thoughts?

[Hermione@13]

Exactly my thoughts! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I never really thought Snape wanted the DADA post -- it always rang of gossip and rumor to me. Everyone just ASSUMED he was lusting after it because they knew his Death Eater past, and Snape and DD allowed the rumors to continue in order to help him maintain his cover when it was needed. But he never actually does or says anything (to my recollection) to confirm his alleged great desire to be DADA teacher.

Actually, the way he was talking about it in HBP he seemed to like talking about it which is pretty suspicious and, also, in the memory in OotP Snape is writing in miniscule writing and yet his essay is still probably longer than anyone elses.

Btw, I am nearing the end of PS/SS and it's really weird to think that it was just the beginning.