Snape....Good or Bad?????, Spape is still good!!! Options

[chosen_one]

im not sure if this has already been mentioned here, but harry overheard snape and dumbledore arguing heatedly over something, and i perceive this to be that snape would kill dumbledore if malfoy didnt. dumbledore knew about the vow because snape told him, he is in fact a triple agent! if you get me there lol. when dumbledore said " severus ....please" what he meant was " severus.....please do what i asked " snape is a great occlumens, and voldemort is a great leglimens, so when voldemort attempts to see if snape is lying, then snape makes it seem as if hes being honest. this makes snape an ideal spy to have in the order.

[Minerva]

I have been trying and trying to figure out the whole Snape thing. I have come up with the conclusion that we really cannot know for sure about Snape until book 7; we just don't know enough - it's actually quite frustrating. Since basically no pebble has been left unturned at this point, the only thing we've got left is to study Snape himself, his character.

For instance, I have always wondered about that scene in HBP when Snape is being chased/attacked by Harry as he escapes Hogwarts. I mean, being called a coward obviously hits a very VERY sensitive nerve. Looking at it, it's obvious that Snape believes using Unfogiveable Curses takes guts and ability. Which is unlike certain other DEs who flick Crucio curses carelessly at children... And what we know about Snape suggests that he preferred or was given a more "intelligence" role, rather than the terrorizing and killing role. I wonder about what Trelawney said about Snape seeking a job at Hogwarts around the same time as her, despite the fact that Dumbledore confirms Snape was still a loyal DE at the time he overheard the prophecy. This, to me, means that Snape was still considered somewhat "ok" or at least "uncertain" among the general wizarding public at the time, as a confirmed Death Eater would know they would not even be considered for a post at Hogwarts (this is common sense a.k.a. "speculation").

Anyway, whatever side he's on, good, evil, both sides, or no side, there is definitely more to Snape than what we know. Even if he's working for Dumbledore, he is kinda shifty... And if he's still a follower of Voldemort, he is definitely no Belletrix.

[lifeoftheparty]

I have no reason to believe that he is evili. Actually I have reason to believe that he was just the opposite. The agrument that Hagrid over heard, once you look at it with all the facts, i think they were agruing on the fact that Severus was suppose to kill Dumbeldore. I can never forgive him either way for killing him, even if it was Albus's wishes. I do not think at all that Snape is bad.

[Hermione@13]

I still believe that Harry's 54:lbolt: has something to do about it. Possibly this is the thing that holds V's power. I believe that Snape is bad. They got Malfoy because he was willing to go to the dark side and show his evil part in a new light. Also, how could somebody do something as cruel as murder! Even if it is part of the plan it's still against the law, so I believe that it was not part of any plan and the only plan that was playing part was V's plan.

[Dementor_Kiss]

I belive in the explaination in the beginning of the 6th book. I belive that Snape is truly evil. I mean how could you think he's good after that? Are you saying that there's some sort of a prophecy going on? Well, maybe, but I doubt it. I think that he's truly evil and that no one can be trsted and I mean nobody. Harry can't trust his friends bacause then V could get to his friends through him, so he's completely alone and you have to face that fact that he's alone and nobody could do anything about it and that's my opinion.
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Exactly, and how could you even trust Snape when he killed DD? Anyway, Snape IS evil and will always be...unless, something happens... 10:unsure:

[mud_blood]

Yeah.. I'm glad so many people still trust Snape.. because i do.. Somehow i feel that Snape can't be a bad person, though i'm shocked that he killed Dumbledore. That really came as a GREAT shock. I never believed it would be Snape who killed Dumbledore... 35:yikes:

In the 2nd chapter of the book, where Snape convinced Bellatrix that he was on Voldermort's side, the convincing is FLAWLESS. He left no loopholes, and he almost convinced me. It's only when he mentioned that he tried his best to get Potter expelled from Hogwarts during his stay with Dumbledore all these years, that i begin to smell a rat. 37:idea: Well he did seem nasty to Harry and Dumbledore, no matter easily he trust people, is definitely not that thick to not notice that. If Snape did performed a good drama of his remorse to Dumbledore when he found out that it was James Potter's son that was the one mentioned in the prophecy and that he was really sorry for what he had done, he should have shown Harry more kindness in front of Dumbledore if he wanted to convince him of that. Why did he openly showed his dislike for Harry in front of Dumbledore?

So my conclusion was that Snape was not acting, because if he is, then he's making a poor effort to do so. So i think Snape was on Dumbledore's side and was willing to repent, though he might really dislike Harry. So if Dumbledore was clever enough to notice that Malfoy was pltting against him, how can he be so stupid to not notice that in Snape? 03;)

As Snape's a very powerful wizard, as shown by his achievements in the potion book, that's why Dumbledore wanted him to spy on Voldemort, as he might be the capable of it more than anyone else. There was a time when Snape and Dumbledore were arguing, as heard by Hagrid, and it seemed Snape was rather overworked.. And Dumbledore said that he had agreed to do it, but snape seemed reluctant..

And on the night when Snape killed Dumbledore, Dumbledore pleaded him, " Severus.. please.." He could not be begging for spare him, because Dumbledore had said that, "Death is really nothing but another great adventure." So either he's pleading for Snape to repent, or pleading for Snape to kill him as perhaps its part of the plan that they had agreed on, or maybe on the circumstances Dumbledore knew that Snape would have no choice but to kill him.. if not.. Snape's being a spy might fail, as Voldemort is the recognised Legilimens... He could not allow any loopholes..

Well.. i had gathered as much evidences as i can to support Snape.. Sorry if it's too lengthy.. 55b:hat:

[mud_blood]

J.K. does give a lot of hints that Snape is good, but I was confused about one thing...right before he kills Dumbledore, it says, "Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face."

Why would he have a look of hatred on his face if he is actually sad about having to kill Dumbledore??  12:wacko:
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Well.. could he be under an Imperius Curse by Dumbledore? Even if Dumbledore is using Unforgivable Curse which is supposed to be dark magic, he's gonna die.. so it doesn't matter..? well it's all confusing.. but i still believe that Snape is good.. and there must be some reason of his doings... Besides JK is well-known to give twist.. Making Snape turns out to be good when he had killed DD seemed like a pretty good twist to me.. eh?

[mud_blood]

Like many of you, I agree we still can have faith in Snape's loyalty to Dumbledore.

To answer the above quote, I think Snape had "revulsion and hatred" on his face because he didn't want to kill Dumbledore; hating the fact that Dumbledore (possibly could have) ordered Snape to kill him in the event we have all read.

Dumbledore is the "wisest, cleverest wizard" in the wizarding world as Rowling expressed many times before. So why would Rowling discredit his wisdom and cleverness now?

My theory is simple. Snape is still fighting against Lord Voldemort and would be more valuable to Harry "acting" as a Death Eater until the time is right to reveal his TRUE self as a member of the Order of Phoenix.
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WELL SAID.. 39:clap: YOU SPOKE MY MIND.. LOL..
Well anyway i don't think Dumbledore will leave Harry unprotected after his death.. Sometimes i'm wondering if Dumbledore and Snape had mad the Unbreakable Vow to protect Harry.. If not how can he be 100% sure, without a single bit of suspicion, that Snape is definitely good? 24:angel:

[mud_blood]

I don't know if Snape is evil or not.  But if he is evil, how much good has he really done?  Looking back at all of the books, if he really is bad, what really happened?  For instance in book 1, was he really helping Harry and Dumbledore, or was he helping Quirell?  Was he really heping Harry with Occlumency or not?  I just want to know what actually happened in all of the books if he is bad.
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well his explanation to Bellatrix in the beginning of the book, half blood prince, had made it clear that all his years in Hogwarts, he had tried his best to get harry expelled, as he couldn't kill harry, or allow Harry to be killed in front of him, right under Dumbledore's nose, if not Dumbledore will suspect him and maybe cease to defend snape as it was through DD's help that Snape was not caught and brought to Azkaban.. HOWEVER.. i still don't believe he's evil due to many other supporting details.. 10a:rolleyes:

See them in my previous post.. 04:P

SNAPE IS NOT EVIL.. though i'm not sure if he DOES hate Harry.. for some reasons.. 06<_<

[Nina79]

mud_blood, please don't make more than one post! If you want to add something in your first post, there's an edit-button. Thanks!

[baty4potter]

And mud_blood please spell out all your words. It's because not cuz!!

[kittygirl543]

Snape is evil. I belive that, and no one can change my mind.

[Bellezza]

When I first got HBP, I read through the titles of the of the chapters, and I knew it would be Dumbledore who died, and after thinking about it a bit, I thought it would be Snape who would kill him. But I was still unsure about who was the HBP because for most of the book I was convinced it was Lily (And actually I still have thoughts that Snape might have copied some of her work, or she wrote some of the things inside his book, but that's another subject). And I was shocked when I thought it would be Snape to kill him, but it really made sense, because if Dumbledore did die, then Harry would need some kind of help from another adult. And the best way to help Harry is to get inside information, and since Snape was a Death Eater, it all fits. The thing is though, I trust Dumbledore's judgement, and even after knowing Snape was the one who had killed Dumbledore, I still trust him. Because Dumbledore trusts him. Yes, Dumbledore has admitted being wrong in the past but, I think deep down there is a good side to Snape. Remember Dumbledore never trusted Riddle. Even though that distrust started at a young age...it never faltered. And he kept that distrust even when everyone else loved Riddle. Remember that.

No matter how much Snape loathes Harry, he has never intentionally let harm come his way. And Harry is obviously the weaker of the two, so why, when Snape was fleeing, did he not also kill Harry? Maybe it was orders from Voldemort to leave Harry for him, but then why would Snape still try to teach Harry? Why would he yell at him for not learning how to properly cast spells without talking? Snape wouldn't have to kill Harry, but he could have injured him enough.

This isn't to say I think Snape doesn't hate Harry, because I think he does, and I think he treats Harry the way that he does as a way to get back at James. And Snape sticks up for Draco because Snape was Draco at that age. Just like James was Harry. Harry gets all of the recognition and Draco is shunned to the side. This is why Snape hates Harry so much because he doesn't think he deserves the recognition he gets, but I still refuse to believe that Snape would ever purposely let harm come Harry's way.

It can be argued from the other side that maybe Snape never drifted back to the dark side before because he never thought it was worth it until HBP when he knew Voldemort was stronger and had more followers. And that could be true, but I think Snape had to suffer a lot to get back in with Voldemort. Voldemort would have known that being that close to Dumbledore might have changed Snape, and he could have questioned why it took him so long to return, which would have put Snape low on the snake list. Snape's helping Malfoy and finally being the one to kill Dumbledore, in Snape's mind, would have brought him higher up that scale. But I think when news reaches Voldemort about Dumbledore's death, Snape is going to have some explaining to do, because how could Snape kill the most powerful wizard in the world-the only one Voldemort ever feared? Snape will have to tell Voldemort how weak Dumbledore was, etc, or else I am sure Voldemort will have plenty suspicions.

Snape has a bad past, but I think the most important thing to remember is that Dumbledore trusts Snape for some reason, though we don't know what it is. Maybe it could be an unbreakable vow between the two of them, or something painful happened to cause this intense trust, but what matters is, is that it is there, and I trust Dumbledore to a t.

Wow, I'm sorry that's so long. Haha.

[mud_blood]

Snape is evil. I belive that, and no one can change my mind.
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I suppose you can tell me your reasons for believing Snape is evil? 02:toofunny: Come to think of it.. Why is DD so anxious about his lessons with Harry? He even lost his cool and got agitated once, and urged Harry to get Slughorn's Horcrux so they can solve the mystery. Well perhaps he thought he had not much time left, so he wanted to tell Harry everything he knows as soon as possible, making sure he understands Voldemort's personality well enough, so that Harry can be able to face his match with Voldemort, well-prepared. There must be reasons for his actions you know.. 16-_-


Sorry.. i'm so used to using short forms. I will try to change it.. 32:sorry:

[Aphrodite]

Well, I don't oppose, nor support Snape. There may be a chance he's a real traitor, but then again...he might be not. It's just so critical- the books don't always turn out like you expect them!

Personally, I think his personality brings him more to the traitor side...But that's just my opinion! 04:P

[groebuck2]

Sorry to move away from the whole R/H, H/G romantic stuff, but I have a new theory about book 7. Many people have commented on Severus Snape as truly being a Death Eater, I mean, come one, he killed Dumbledore! However, I think there's more to it than that.
Question 1: is Dumbledore really dead?
If you remember from GoF, fake Moody teaches about the unforgivable curses. He gives the students the opportunity to use the Avada Kedavra curse on him in confidence that it would give him no more than a nosebleed. This leads to one conclusion: the incantation itself is not enough. Next, when Rowling writes about a new topic in a book, it ALWAYS comes into play later in that book. Some examples: learning about werewolves: Lupin is one (PoA); unforgiveable curses: used heavily at the end with Voldemort (GoF). These are a few of the many. Well, for HBP, the new topic was: silent spells (or whatever the wording was). This leads to a new question: can Snape actually perform a silent curse and speak a meaningless incantation at the same time? If so, then the Kedavra curse was not performed, and Dumbledore was not killed by that curse. Besides, in the known uses of the curse, does it cause anybody to fly into the air? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought it killed you right where you stand. This one blasted Dumbledore off a building. Does not sound like the curse, and I'm sure that there are more green-colored spells than Avada Kedavra. DECOY! From there, it would have been easy for Dumbledore to slow his fall. The moral of the story: Dumbledore seems too smart to be caught in such a situation. He makes mistakes, but one like this?

Question 2: why does Snape continue to teach Harry?
When Snape is leaving with Malfoy, Harry tries to catch them. Of course, taking out Snape was not possible for Harry because Harry kept using verbal spells and sucks at Occlumency. Why on earth would Snape say how to beat him? "You'll never beat me until you can keep your mind closed and your mouth shut." Great. Now Harry knows what to do. Of course, Snape does use the Cruciatus curse on Harry, but we all know Snape's temper and contempt for Harry. Despite this, Snape has saved Harry in the past, so there goes that obstacle.

Question 3: why does Snape hesitate when asked to perform the unbreakable vow?
Self-explanatory?

Therefore, Snape is still good, and Dumbledore is not dead. I hope this is more than wishful thinking.

[Perseus_Evans]

Welcome to the boards!

There are many discussions currently taking place in other threads on the Snape = Good? subject and the DD is alive subject, so you may want to chime in there, since the mods may not want an extra topic on the same issue...

Note my signature for my thoughts on the matter... ;)

[mud_blood]

woah groebuck2.. i love your theory! 11a:wub: It sounds logical and definitely possible.. sometimes i'm wondering if JKR visits forums for inspirations on her books! Perhaps u might give her the idea! 37:idea:

Haha.. ok jokes over.. 02:lol: Though i like your analysis, but i think your 'wishful thinking' may just remained 'wishful'.. don't be offended, as i have my reasons..

Firstly, according to the prophecy, harry is to meet his match with LV alone, and that only him alone could finish LV off. From Bk 1 to 6, Harry had always received protection from someone else. But this time, DD's gone(assuming that he's really dead), it seemed that Harry is destined to go on his own from now on, and the last book would be something new-- Life WITHOUT DD.

Secondly, in HBP, there's a part whereby Trelawny was handling some cards and muttering to herself on why she would get the same card of a lightning struck towereverytime no matter how she places them. (check it out.. its on the chapter whereby Harry found out that Snape was the one who heard the prophecy.. forgot the page no. 04:P ) And its seemed like a sort of premonition to DD's death, and that disaster is about to strike.. So that goes to show that DD might really be dead.

These are just assumtions i made according to certain series of events in the book. 15^_^

HOWEVER, there's something else that might give us some hope that DD's not dead. Remember the time when DD 'shouted' at Harry to "for once, forget about the prophecy!.... Do you think all the prophecies in the Department of Mysteries are true?...."(i just typed this from my memory.. might not be the exact words.. 03;) DD said this! So what did he meant when he said that?? Aren't prophecies true? Are they accurate? Aren't prophecies supposed to be telling of the future? But if it's prophecies couldn't be trusted, why was LV so eager to get it in Order of Phoenix?

Well it's all confusing.. but my instincts tells me that DD's really dead, and i don't think he can ever be a ghost like Nearly Headless Nick as he said to Harry before in Book 1,"Death is nothing but another great adventure." He is not afraid of death, like Nick... like LV.

I Luv Dumbledore.. He's such a great wizard. But i guess the story goes better with him dead, which gave us the benefit of doubt without the wise and knowledgeable wizard around to explain things. Bringing him back to life would have been all too easy for Harry, and everything might be like how it is in the other books.. i just feel that the last book should have an Xfactor in it!

I guess many of us still couldn't accept the fact that he's dead. Afterall he's the greatest wizard of modern times. But JKR had said this(i read it in one of the forum posted by Baty4potter so dun worry.. i'm not a spoiler).."...The hero should go alone..."

52:gandalf:

[baty4potter]

Perseus is very correct, there are a lot of topics where these can be discussed. This thread is titled Snape... Good or Bad?

Please look for the appropriate thread to discuss this in. If discussion continues off topic the posts will be deleted.

Perseus, direct them to the proper link for these discussions... You've got a couple of good ones going.

Thankssssss.... 01:)

[Professor Englis...]

Snape, in my opinion, will end up being the most important teacher Harry will have in the entire series; I would even go so far as to say, at the risk of being sacreligious, that Snape will be an even more important teacher than Dumbledore. He is the only adult left who can offer him any substantive help at all, and, as the previous post states, even at the end of HBP when Snape could have offed Harry in an instant, he was teaching him.

This is the best analogy I can come up with: it's like Harry is taking a lab science course. Dumbledore is the professor who lectures Harry and provides all the background information. Snape is the professor who conducts the lab, who provides the "hands on" lessons, the teacher who asks Harry put to use the information he learned in the lectures. For example, one of my friends had an idea about Sectumsempra. She said that Harry's use of the spell on Malfoy marks the first time Harry has an idea of his own power to destroy, that his actions can harm others. This is a lesson Harry learns--albeit in a roundabout way--from Snape. I mean, Harry has seen death before, but this time, he is almost the cause of it, and this gives Harry a great deal of pause. Snape knows what Harry did because he invented the spell himself, but he does not turn him in, even though he knows Harry is lying when he tries to pass off Ron's Potions book as his own. HBP marks an end to the lectures. Book 7 will be all about the "hands on" lessons.

And one cannot discount the fact that the title of the sixth novel is Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, which in essence is Harry Potter and Severus Snape.

Snape will go down in pop culture history and/or literary history as being the best double-double agent there ever was!