The Ending Options

[Debod]

I find the ending slightly dissatisfying. JK had prepared us pretty well, I feel, for a major character death. Yes, there are deaths. Very upsetting ones. But many people I know felt that Harry simply had to go. There will be those who argue that it's essentially is a school hero epic, and so had to have a happy ending... but has JK betrayed the logic of the narrative? Or...

...Did Harry actually die, and go to his version of heaven? Meeting Dumbledore in his idealised "King's Cross" (is this a biblical reference?), and having a by-now classic Dumbledore "Deus Ex Machina" moment, where all is explained - this surely would have been one of Harry's ideas of heaven or at least heaven's waiting room?

Chapter 36 - The first words Harry hears are "My Lord... My Lord...". Is this a strange overlap? Going back for a final, triumphant battle, where Voldemort is thoroughly humiliated and defeated... surely paradise for Harry, along with another final reunion with his "father figure" Dumbledore.

And then onto the final chapter. Growing up... Marrying Ginny - his childhood sweetheart, also teenage Harry's idea of heaven. Is it a coincidence that the other pairing (Ron and Hermione) is that of teenage timewarp childhood sweethearts - a pairing as Harry knew them at the time of his "death"? Teddy Lupin has grown up and apparently found love in the arms of "Victoire" - surely another of Harry's deepest wishes, for the Lupin baby to grow up safely and find love. Neville has his ultimate vindication as Hogwarts professor... Draco is there, safe but distant...

You may challenge this with the absence of Lily, James, Sirius etc. But Harry met them just before his "death" and said his goodbyes. He has been convinced by the whole story of the Stone that bringing back "shades" is not right or desirable. He wouldn't want them in heaven as shades. Lily and James are there, in the even better form of new life. As are Dumbledore and Snape.

And for more hints that Harry is in heaven, how about this lexical evidence of "spirituality" from the final chapter... "golden..." "sparkled..." "vanished..." "believe..." "white steam..." "indistinct figures swarming through the mist..." "hazy forms..." "vapour..." "mist..." "faces came into focus..." "faith..." "steam..." "shifting mist..." "billowing clouds..." "wonder..." "blurred outlines..." "ablaze..." "bereavement..." "glide..." "steam evaporated..." "farewell..."

What about the final line? "The scar had not pained Harry for nineteen years. All was well." A strangely simple tone for the end of a seven-book epic. No pain? Is Harry "resting in peace?"...

This post has been edited by Debod: Jul 24 2007, 05:45 PM

[Luna_tUrNeR]

ok first [no offense tho] i think its a little ungrateful to say that the end wasnt what YOU expected. harry is in this -what YOU call- heaven because hes gone through enough, he's gone through more pain in 7 years than any other wizard, he deserves to live a painless life. second, probably about most wizards marry their school sweetharts like james/lily or molly/arthur.
at the end, when harry 'wakes up' and he hears 'My lord..' voldemort is not 'throughly deafeated and humiliated' he probably just fell to the floor from the hit.
plus remember this is a children's book AS WELL. YOU cant traumatize children by killing their hero BECAUSE thats just mean.

[baty4potter]

ok first [no offense tho] i think its a little ungrateful to say that the end wasnt what YOU expected. harry is in this -what YOU call- heaven because hes gone through enough, he's gone through more pain in 7 years than any other wizard, he deserves to live a painless life. second, probably about most wizards marry their school sweetharts like james/lily or molly/arthur.
at the end, when harry 'wakes up' and he hears 'My lord..' voldemort is not 'throughly deafeated and humiliated' he probably just fell to the floor from the hit.
plus remember this is a children's book AS WELL. YOU cant traumatize children by killing their hero BECAUSE thats just mean.

Please spell out all your words!!

[Debod]

ok first [no offense tho] i think its a little ungrateful to say that the end wasnt what YOU expected. harry is in this -what YOU call- heaven because hes gone through enough, he's gone through more pain in 7 years than any other wizard, he deserves to live a painless life. second, probably about most wizards marry their school sweetharts like james/lily or molly/arthur.
at the end, when harry 'wakes up' and he hears 'My lord..' voldemort is not 'throughly deafeated and humiliated' he probably just fell to the floor from the hit.
plus remember this is a children's book AS WELL. YOU cant traumatize children by killing their hero BECAUSE thats just mean.

Didn't mean to upset you! Just a theory, among many others I'm sure. You are correct, and I think I already said the books are a school hero story, a genre for children. That's why JK has been so clever in creating an ending that can be interpreted in so many ways... and all readers have the right to interpret without being SHOUTED at! On another point, I'm pretty sure Voldemort is both defeated and humiliated in Ch.36. "Tom Riddle hit the floor with a mundane finality, his body feeble and shrunken, the white hands empty, the snake-like face vacant and unknowing... killed by his own rebounding curse." And after such boasting earlier in the chapter...! Tsk.

This post has been edited by Debod: Jul 24 2007, 05:23 PM

[baty4potter]

I think we *all* need to step back when addressing someone's theories so we are not offending anyone. This has been a very long journey for all of us, and some of our theories have been correct and some haven't, some of our thoughts are correct and some aren't, but until JK answers them it's still all anyone's guess.

BTW, JK is going to put another book out. It is going to be a Harry Potter Encyclopedia. :~) HURRAY!!! So hopefully all our questions will be answered. Oh she didn't say when it was going to be done. lol

[Debod]

I think we *all* need to step back when addressing someone's theories so we are not offending anyone. This has been a very long journey for all of us, and some of our theories have been correct and some haven't, some of our thoughts are correct and some aren't, but until JK answers them it's still all anyone's guess.

BTW, JK is going to put another book out. It is going to be a Harry Potter Encyclopedia. :~) HURRAY!!! So hopefully all our questions will be answered. Oh she didn't say when it was going to be done. lol

Thanks Baty4Potter. My guess is that the great JK would be very pleased that everyone has different ideas about the books...

[Witherwings]

I think we *all* need to step back when addressing someone's theories so we are not offending anyone. This has been a very long journey for all of us, and some of our theories have been correct and some haven't, some of our thoughts are correct and some aren't, but until JK answers them it's still all anyone's guess.

BTW, JK is going to put another book out. It is going to be a Harry Potter Encyclopedia. :~) HURRAY!!! So hopefully all our questions will be answered. Oh she didn't say when it was going to be done. lol

When did she say she was definitely doing another book - the encylopedia? I only saw her say she MIGHT do it.

[Dijares]

She apparently told the Today Show in her interview that she 'will probably' do an encyclopedia.

See our article here.

[Debod]

I find the ending slightly dissatisfying. JK had prepared us pretty well, I feel, for a major character death. Yes, there are deaths. Very upsetting ones. But many people I know felt that Harry simply had to go. There will be those who argue that it's essentially is a school hero epic, and so had to have a happy ending... but has JK betrayed the logic of the narrative? Or...

...Did Harry actually die, and go to his version of heaven? Meeting Dumbledore in his idealised "King's Cross" (is this a biblical reference?), and having a by-now classic Dumbledore "Deus Ex Machina" moment, where all is explained - this surely would have been one of Harry's ideas of heaven or at least heaven's waiting room?

Chapter 36 - The first words Harry hears are "My Lord... My Lord...". Is this a strange overlap? Going back for a final, triumphant battle, where Voldemort is thoroughly humiliated and defeated... surely paradise for Harry, along with another final reunion with his "father figure" Dumbledore.

And then onto the final chapter. Growing up... Marrying Ginny - his childhood sweetheart, also teenage Harry's idea of heaven. Is it a coincidence that the other pairing (Ron and Hermione) is that of teenage timewarp childhood sweethearts - a pairing as Harry knew them at the time of his "death"? Teddy Lupin has grown up and apparently found love in the arms of "Victoire" - surely another of Harry's deepest wishes, for the Lupin baby to grow up safely and find love. Neville has his ultimate vindication as Hogwarts professor... Draco is there, safe but distant...

You may challenge this with the absence of Lily, James, Sirius etc. But Harry met them just before his "death" and said his goodbyes. He has been convinced by the whole story of the Stone that bringing back "shades" is not right or desirable. He wouldn't want them in heaven as shades. Lily and James are there, in the even better form of new life. As are Dumbledore and Snape.

And for more hints that Harry is in heaven, how about this lexical evidence of "spirituality" from the final chapter... "golden..." "sparkled..." "vanished..." "believe..." "white steam..." "indistinct figures swarming through the mist..." "hazy forms..." "vapour..." "mist..." "faces came into focus..." "faith..." "steam..." "shifting mist..." "billowing clouds..." "wonder..." "blurred outlines..." "ablaze..." "bereavement..." "glide..." "steam evaporated..." "farewell..."

What about the final line? "The scar had not pained Harry for nineteen years. All was well." A strangely simple tone for the end of a seven-book epic. No pain? Is Harry "resting in peace?"...

Another couple of ideas along these lines: Is it a coincidence that "Lily" and "Rose" both appear in the final chapter? White lilies were said to have be found growing in the Garden of Gethsemane after Christ's crucifixion from where drops of Christ's sweat fell to the ground from the cross. Meanwhile about the rose, early Christians identified the five petals of the rose with the five wounds of Christ... another person who sacrificed himself. However, their leaders were hesitant to adopt it because of its association with Roman excesses and pagan ritual... paganism = witchcraft for some people doesn't it? The red rose was eventually adopted as a symbol of the blood of the Christian martyrs. Could it be a symbol of the Hogwarts martyrs too?

In Victorian symbolism, the rose came to mean love, beauty, hope, unfailing love, and the Virgin Mary, the "rose without thorns." Whether the rose is a bud, flower or somewhere in between indicates how old the person was at the time of death. A rose in full bloom normally indicates that the deceased died in the prime of life. Is it significant that the "rose" we meet in the final chapter is a young girl... a blooming bud? Indicating that death came to Harry as a young man? For the Victorians, the lily meant majesty, innocence, purity, and resurrection. Again it was often associated with the Virgin Mary and resurrection. The use of lilies at funerals symbolizes the restored innocence of the soul at death... Harry's soul?

[Arsi]

I was quite satisfied with the ending, except that it was a bit abrupt.

She has had the end in her head since before she started book 1. I am just glad she stuck to her guns and didnt kill Harry just to satisfy some people and try to keep others from writing about her characters.

You knew there was a special connection between Harry and Voldemort through the scar, and the magic had to be released one way or another. When Voldemort used Harry's blood there was a gleam in Dumbledore's eyes, and some people started to think Dumbledore was actually on Voldemort's sdie after that. She had the story outlined very well in her mind and the ending between Harry and Tom Riddle when he takes Dumbledore's place to put "Tom" in his by using his given name was just Beautiful... as Hagrid would say.

The series started out written for children and there are still many children who followed the books as they came out or picked up on them as they grew old enough to understand them. I felt killing Harry, Ron, or Hermione would have been quite a shock to them, on par with losing a close friend. For me, Dobby was the death that worst. I am in a way glad I did not witness the deaths of some of the other people in the book.

It is a mark of a GREAT writer who can pull forth strong emotions with the deaths of Sirius, Dumbledore, Dobby, Fred, Cedric, Moody, Tonks, Lupin. I laughed out loud, and my cat jumped off my lap, when Kreature charged out with the knife shouting for the house elves to rise up...

Most of the arguements about Harry dying seemed to be centered around how little he knew of magic compared to Dumbledore and Tom Riddle. In a flat out duel he would never stand a chance, but she ingeniously tipped the scales to Harry's side without Riddle ever knowing that it truly happened.

I hate to do this, but in other books and movies how often is the hero truly outmatched, almost EVERY single time. Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Belgariad, Wizards First Rule, Eragon, Feists books... If the hero was not against a greater force then they are and require heroics, they would not be a hero. Dudley could never be a hero, he only went after those weaker than himself.

[baty4potter]

Quick blurb from article.

In her first tell-all interview since the release of “Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows,” J.K. Rowling told TODAY’s Meredith Vieira she "probably will" publish a Potter encyclopedia, promising many more details about her beloved characters and the fate of the wizarding world beyond the few clues provided in the seventh book’s epilogue.

“I suppose I have (started) because the raw material is all in my notes,” Rowling said.

The encyclopedia would include back stories of characters she has already written but had to cut for the sake of narrative arc (“I've said before that Dean Thomas had a much more interesting history than ever appeared in the books”), as well as details about the characters who survive “Deathly Hallows,” characters who continue to live on in Rowling’s mind in a clearly defined magical world.

She may have said "probably will" but if she wasn't going to do it she would have kept her mouth shut!!!

New prediction..... I bet JK puts out another book! ROFL

I was quite satisfied with the ending, except that it was a bit abrupt.

It is a mark of a GREAT writer who can pull forth strong emotions with the deaths of Sirius, Dumbledore, Dobby, Fred, Cedric, Moody, Tonks, Lupin. I laughed out loud, and my cat jumped off my lap, when Kreature charged out with the knife shouting for the house elves to rise up...

Most of the arguements about Harry dying seemed to be centered around how little he knew of magic compared to Dumbledore and Tom Riddle. In a flat out duel he would never stand a chance, but she ingeniously tipped the scales to Harry's side without Riddle ever knowing that it truly happened.

I was quite happy that Jo didn't make Harry become this super hero almost overnight, by developing the powers to fight Voldemort straight out with powerful magic.

Harry is a powerful wizard, but he is young, and has yet to hone them, and for him to have it all come together in one year would have been a bit of a hat trick.

[Arsi]

New prediction..... I bet JK puts out another book! ROFL

YES, PLEASE... I am going to wait in line right now

[baty4potter]

YES, PLEASE... I am going to wait in line right now

ROFL!!! I'd give it a couple of weeks hun! ;~)

[Debod]

The series started out written for children and there are still many children who followed the books as they came out or picked up on them as they grew old enough to understand them. I felt killing Harry, Ron, or Hermione would have been quite a shock to them, on par with losing a close friend. For me, Dobby was the death that worst. I am in a way glad I did not witness the deaths of some of the other people in the book.

...I hate to do this, but in other books and movies how often is the hero truly outmatched, almost EVERY single time. Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Belgariad, Wizards First Rule, Eragon, Feists books... If the hero was not against a greater force then they are and require heroics, they would not be a hero. Dudley could never be a hero, he only went after those weaker than himself.

I was very moved by dobby's death "...the elf became quite still, and his eyes were nothing more than great, glassy orbs sprinkled with light from the stars they could not see." What magnificent writing.

True, Harry has to be outmatched throughout, the underdog, as befits the genre. I'm thinking of Lord of the Rings though, for example, and what happens to Frodo at the end, in spite of his so-called "victory"... and the Dark Materials trilogy, which also has a tragic, heartbreaking plot twist at the end. Harry's is such a great tale, and I suppose I am looking for that truly great, tragic ending... one which has a sense of catharsis - of pity and terror - and also of inspiration and ascendancy.

This post has been edited by Debod: Jul 24 2007, 07:31 PM

[myohmyitstara]

first off i will say that the Harry Potter series has been one amazing ride.. the end was very satisfying for me. i would have aprrecitated a little more detail. but then again if the series could go on forever i would promptly buy every book and read over and over until the next book came out. so i do understand that jk rowling must end the book sometime. i loved that harry didnt die...i don't know if i could have handled it at all if he did. it was sad but definetly definitive to finish the last book. but mostly sad. i think it will be even harder once i have seen the 7th movie. if i could have it my way rowling would have included an epilogue individually for all major characters stating jobs..marriage...children etc. but they are her books and i must say no one could ever write it better. who's with me?

[Witherwings]

first off i will say that the Harry Potter series has been one amazing ride.. the end was very satisfying for me. i would have aprrecitated a little more detail. but then again if the series could go on forever i would promptly buy every book and read over and over until the next book came out. so i do understand that jk rowling must end the book sometime. i loved that harry didnt die...i don't know if i could have handled it at all if he did. it was sad but definetly definitive to finish the last book. but mostly sad. i think it will be even harder once i have seen the 7th movie. if i could have it my way rowling would have included an epilogue individually for all major characters stating jobs..marriage...children etc. but they are her books and i must say no one could ever write it better. who's with me?

I guess this is why she's talking about possibly making an encyclopedia. I hope she doesn't wait too long though.

[Debod]

I guess this is why she's talking about possibly making an encyclopedia. I hope she doesn't wait too long though.

Much as I adore Harry, not sure I'd buy an Encylopoedia. Seems a bit like "merchandising" or "milking it"...?

[myohmyitstara]

Much as I adore Harry, not sure I'd buy an Encylopoedia. Seems a bit like "merchandising" or "milking it"...?

and as much as i agree with this i can't be sure that i could hold back on just a little bit more of beloved harry potter material.

[LenaMM24]

i absolutely loved the ending!!!!
many things that were not clear, now are. i do still question a few things, but ill bet that they become clearer the 2nd or maybe even 3rd time that i re-read deathly hallows. i dont think that harry really did die. i think that he actaully was saved by the blood he ''gave'' voldemort. neither could live while the other survives! and it was because of that.

[Half-Blood Princ...]

I thought the ending was good.. but i wish they could've added more to the epilogue though.. at least say where harry and his friends are working. and what happened to the rest of the order and the DA..