His scar?, I am confused. Options

[1HPgirl]

Many people have the theory that Harry's scar is a horcrux. Well if this theory is correct, then wouldn't Harry have to destroy himself to destory Voldemort? So he would first have to destroy all of the horcruxes leaving his scar for last, then kill himself to conquer Voldemort? So is it possible that Harry and Voldemort will both die? Does anyone have any theories on this?

[WickedWitchOfThe...]

Well if this theory is correct, then wouldn't Harry have to destroy himself to destory Voldemort? So he would first have to destroy all of the horcruxes leaving his scar for last, then kill himself to conquer Voldemort? So is it possible that Harry and Voldemort will both die?

Correct. Also correct. And again also correct. Those are the thoughts. That the scar will be the last Horcrux and when Harry has to destroy V, that his destroying himself and the final Horcrux (his scar) will be the end of it. Personally, I don't see how it could work unless he destroyed all the Horcruxes first, including V's body, and then offed himself to ensure that V couldn't come back.

Does anyone have any theories on this?

I believe that it was Perseus Evans who had an excellent one. Lemme go see if I can find it and post it here for you......

I believe this was it, and yes, it was Perseus.....

Snape saves Harry. Voldy AKs him. It bounces back, creating another disembodied version of Voldy. Voldy's soulless essence seeks out the last Horcrux (Harry's scar) finds that he can't touch it in that form because Harry's love is too painful for his cursed soul to bond with. He spends the rest of his existence as a disembodied and soulless darkness (a fate worse than death) until Harry dies of old age.

Good one, isn't it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[1HPgirl]

So Harry will most likely not kill himself, just destroy all of the Horcruxes (including Vodemort leaving him souless and disembodied) and then just wait until he dies of old age, thus destroying the final horcrux? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Perseus_Evans]

Yes, it's true (thanks for the props WWW) I am one of those crazy folks who believes that the scar is the "accidental horcrux", and yes it would seem that if that's true than Harry must be destroyed for Voldy to be defeated...

My thought is that the reason Dumbledore didn't tell Harry the nature of his scar is that he only wants Harry to destroy the other horcruxes... I go back to the line in PS/SS... McGonnagal asked Dumbledore if something could be done about the scar and DD says vaguely that there may be something useful about the scar (the means to defeat Voldy, i think), though I doubt it's also a map of the London Underground... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) He also knew that like the other horcruxes, the only way to destroy it is to destroy it's "vessel", so to speak, and I don't know if DD was sure the vessel wasn't Harry himself...

If you recall the "look of triumph" in DD's eyes at the end of Goblet of Fire, I believe it was because DD knew that the ability to love would make Voldy unable to connect with or possess Harry when Harry is feeling love...

So in the end when Voldy gets defeated (by whom is not so important, but I believe Snape and Harry will somehow have to team up to pull it off) he'll find no other horcruxes left, other than Harry's scar, but because Voldy can't focus past the pain of trying to possess Harry, he won't be able to be anything but a disembodied spirit (a fate worse than death, I'd say), powerless and in pain until Harry dies...

[1HPgirl]

Wow, Perseus you are brilliant. But what makes you so sure that Snape is not a Death Eater?

[Perseus_Evans]

The clincher for me that Snape wasn't a death eater is strangely enough, when he killed Dumbledore...

A death eater would have had a look of pleasure or smugness on his face rather than revulsion...

Some will say Snape was repulsed by DD's sudden state of weakness: "Severus... Please...", but had he been fooling DD all along, he would have had the look of smug satisfaction that we all have come to know so well when he's taunted Harry throughout the series...

Then there's the indignation he felt when Harry called him a coward. Why would he care? Harry's opinion has never mattered to him, so I can only assume that it's because killing Dumbledore required more courage than we know...

And for the record, the my "brilliance" is a product of reading the series waaaaay too many times... but thanks :)

[WickedWitchOfThe...]

(thanks for the props WWW)

You are most welcome! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The look of triumph and scar coming in useful thoughts of yours are very convincing, Perseus. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Thoguh they haven't quite got me turned yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Wow, Perseus you are brilliant.

Agreed! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

but had he been fooling DD all along, he would have had the look of smug satisfaction that we all have come to know so well when he's taunted Harry throughout the series...

Excellent point! Why didn't you ever bring that up when I was on the fence about Snape? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laughing.gif)

And for the record, the my "brilliance" is a product of reading the series waaaaay too many times

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laughing.gif)

[1HPgirl]

Well I am impressed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You make excellent points that I haven't even thought of that seem so obvious now! So I am assuming that he killed DD because he wanted not only to save his own life by following through with the unbreakable vow, but also convince Voldemort that he was a true death eater (even if he isn't). Maybe DD had planned his death with Snape all along knowing he would come back as a ghost, portrait, etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But, this thought has crossed my mind a few times, what if DD made his own Horcrux? I know this seems VERY unlikely because it is dark, dark magic; but desperate times call for desperate measures. It seems a little far fetched, but would it not be an extremley cool way to begin or end the book with DD coming back with the second part of his soul? I just don't want to believe DD is dead !!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/crying.gif)

[WickedWitchOfThe...]

But, this thought has crossed my mind a few times, what if DD made his own Horcrux? I know this seems VERY unlikely because it is dark, dark magic; but desperate times call for desperate measures.

In order to make a Horcrux you have to have first split your soul. In order to split your soul you must murder somebody. I do not believe that DD has ever murdered anybody to have split his soul to enable him to make a Horcrux. Yes, he did defeat Grindelwald, but we don't know if he killed him. All we heard is that he defeated him, so Grindelwald may still be alive rotting away in Azkaban for all we know. No, I don't think DD has a Horcrux.

[1HPgirl]

I know it is very unlikely but it was just a thought. And if he did kill Grindelwald then it is possible. I am not saying its true or that I think that he does have one, but I was just saying it could be possible....and also, it would be a really neat twist !

But what are your thoughts on what i said before?

So I am assuming that he killed DD because he wanted not only to save his own life by following through with the unbreakable vow, but also convince Voldemort that he was a true death eater (even if he isn't). Maybe DD had planned his death with Snape all along knowing he would come back as a ghost, portrait, etc.

[Hermione@13]

How could he save his own life with the Unbreakable Vow? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I thought he did it to save Draco's life. Also, I don't think they were planning DD's death because it wouldn't be the same with DD's portrait or ghost as the real thing.

[Perseus_Evans]

Well we're a bit off topic... but I guess it always comes down to the big unsolved issues, since everything is interrelated.

I'm pretty sure that argument that Hagrid overheard between Snape and DD in HBP was about following through on the Unbreakable vow... Remember that, although the vow was about Draco, we are told that if you don't follow through on the UV, you die... So in theory, yes Snape was preventing his OWN death...

Although... I seem to recall the source of information about the UV was Ron, which was what he was told as a kid when Fred and George tried to get him to take such a vow. It's quite possible this was something that Arthur told his son to insure that he never try one or take one...

Suddenly it occurs to me that maybe the truth of the Unbreakable vow is that you are magically compelled to follow through, regardless of your own desires (hence the look of revulsion)... And DD's plea was that he not fight it, since it could blow his cover... And to that WWW, I really hadn't thought it through to that point before, as I was still erroneously convinced DD was alive, but if this helps you think Snape's not a death eater, all the better :)

This would also fit with Snape protecting Harry throughout the series as a result of my other theory that Snape took an unbreakable vow with DD to protect Harry (the reason DD trusts Snape implicitly???) since his instinct is to find every way to annoy Harry, his school rival's (James Potter's) son...

And no matter what, I can't imagine DD would do anything like a Horcrux or become a ghost... In PS/SS... he said, on the subject of Nicholas Flamel... that death is not something to be feared to "the well-ordered mind"... Dumbledore's portrait in the office is the best we can expect, I'm afraid, and I have a feeling that his ability to provide input and advice will be especially unsatisfying to Harry, in particular... On the other hand... at least he'll be able to walk out of his portrait and watch every kid in Hogwarts who has his Chocolate Frog cards. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[1HPgirl]

How could he save his own life with the Unbreakable Vow? I thought he did it to save Draco's life

No, if you break an unbreakable vow you die right? So he would have keep his vow or he would die. So by following through on the vow he was saving his own life.

Also, I don't think they were planning DD's death because it wouldn't be the same with DD's portrait or ghost as the real thing.

This was just an idea. I am only trying to figure out what Snape's motive was for killing DD if he is in fact, not a death eater.

[Hermione@13]

Exactly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I think that Snape is a Death Eater becuase he actually killed someone! I know I'm repeating myself, but why else would he have been able to do the AK on DD.

[1HPgirl]

I am very convinced that Harry's scar is a Horcrux, although I do not know how it will all work out in the end. But if that theory isn't correct, then this is my other theory:


After Harry destroy's all of the Horcruxes accept the one currently being used by LV he will be forced to go after him LV to destroy the last Horcrux. Neville will go with Harry on these journeys of destroying the ripped peices of soul and to fight LV. LV will attempt to AK Harry, but Neville will jump in front of him and die creating another protective shield of love over Harry, thus, thwarting LV once again (but LV will have no backup Horcruxes to save himself this time).

But how can Snape be good? In SS (PS) Harry gets a painful sensation in his scar and is instantly cautious about him, when he actually meets Snape later on in the book he finds out Snape hates him as much as he hates Snape. Throughout his years at Hogwarts, him and Snape lothe eachother and Harry has never trusted him. Harry has been right about pretty much all of his theories, so why would he be wrong about this. Although I do still believe Snape is a death eater, I think that Draco will join the good side. Evidence from the HBP has shown that he wanted to quit and that he wanted to accept DDs protection, but felt trapped and like he would be found by LV if he did.

Exactly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I think that Snape is a Death Eater becuase he actually killed someone! I know I'm repeating myself, but why else would he have been able to do the AK on DD.

And as for this, you don't have to be a Death Eater to cast the AK curse. The only requirments for doing the AK curse is you have to really want it. This applies to all of the unforgivable curses.

[WickedWitchOfThe...]

Neville will jump in front of him and die creating another protective shield of love over Harry

The only problem I have with this is that Neville does not love Harry. He's friends with him, sure, but love him? I don't think so. But that is just my opinion.

[Hermione@13]

And as for this, you don't have to be a Death Eater to cast the AK curse. The only requirments for doing the AK curse is you have to really want it. This applies to all of the unforgivable curses.

This is what I meant. A DE would love to cast an Unforgivable Curse, so the only way for Snape to kill DD he would've wanted to kill him. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Zola231]

Whta i do not get is that if harry is destroyed then he can not do anything else. Because once you are destroyed you are can not do anything.

[1HPgirl]

The only problem I have with this is that Newville does not love Harry. He's friends with him, sure, but love him? I don't think so. But that is just my opinion.

Neville isn't in love with Harry no, but he and Harry are good friends, and I am sure that he would try to protect Harry. And if LV casted AK at Harry, then I am almost positive that Neville would jump in front of him to protect him. And even if he isnt in love with Harry the ancient magic still applies.

This is what I meant. A DE would love to cast an Unforgivable Curse, so the only way for Snape to kill DD he would've wanted to kill him. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I still think there are possible ways around this. Maybe Snape really wanted it because he knew it was what is best for Harry and DD wanted it done? I dont know. I am not saying I think that Snape is good. (I would be crushed if he was anything but evil) But, I am saying it is VERYpossible.

[WickedWitchOfThe...]

Ick! The typo on my part, sorry about that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/crazy.gif)

Neville isn't in love with Harry no, but he and Harry are good friends, and I am sure that he would try to protect Harry. And if LV casted AK at Harry, then I am almost positive that Neville would jump in front of him to protect him. And even if he isnt in love with Harry the ancient magic still applies.

He doesn't have to be in love with Harry. Lily wasn't in love with her son. She was that with James. But, she did love her son. Whereas Neville does not love Harry. He is just now starting to become more of a friend than an acquaintance. After six years this is how far their friendship has gone. It's not anything remotely close to having a loving friendship. Even with Ron and Harry that is hard to discern. Those two may love eachother as friends, but is it powerful enough to thwart the AK curse? I don't think so, but it may be. I don't know. That being said, I do agree that Neville would try to protect Harry just as Harry would Neville, but their friendship is not close nor powerful enough to harbor any kind of loving feelings between the two, let alone block an AK curse. Harry survived because his mother died for him out of the love she has for him just as any mother would do for her child. That is a special kind of magic. I have never believed that it took any kind of incantation to make that magic happen. I believe that it was something that happened on its own out of the love between Lily and Harry. So I don't see how a friendship, let alone one as unclose as Harry's and Neville's, could make that magic happen again. If the magic occurred just because someone died for you, then yeah, I totally see it happening. But since there is a lot of love involved, I can't see Harry being protected by Neville taking the hit.