Discuss HPDH here, **SPOILERS** Options

[kat9]

When each character died, I was like, oh my gosh! hedwig, mad-eye,dobby(bless him! even tho i didnt like the elf in the beginning of hp, i grew to like him!) , fred, (that was soo sad!!! i luv the twins) lupin, tonks, (that was awful that she killed those two off!)
The pensieve part was very cool. I felt sad when Snape died, he really loved Lily! And even if he helped for the wrong reasons, he still did his best to keep Harry safe.
When Harry figured out he had to die, i was crying so hard, i could barely read the words! And when he was talking to Dumbeldore, i was so sad!! i luv dumbeldore! and i really thought Sirius was going to come back! All he did was fall through a veil. Thsi book was so dark and sinister, and i think they're going to have trouble making a movie. If they leave a lot of stuff out, ill be really mad (like they did with movie 5.)
It was pretty cool how she had the ending. Later on and all. But seeing that they named their children, Albus, James,& Lily, it was really sad!!
What depresses me the most, is that there are no more Harry Potter books. It's over.

[Witherwings]

Another thought to toss into the mix here... how did Dumbledore beat Grindelwald in the duel? Particularly given that the wand which Grindelwald was using was the Elder Wand... I thought the wand was invincible and therefore the owner couldn't be beat (unless he/she let their guard down, such as in the story how the one brother boasted, and in his sleep, was killed). It all seems to be summed up in the quote "Well, you know what happened next. I won the duel. I won the wand." But I must have missed why DD is able to defeat Grindelwald in the duel at all....

We know that Grindelwald is still alive in book seven (though Voldemort later kills him). I think, therefore, that DD didn't have to kill Grindelwald to win the duel. Since that's the case, the wand being invincible wouldn't have mattered at all since there were other tools with which to defeat him. Therefore the duel might not have been a "wizards' duel" in the traditional sense, but maybe a sparring of ideas. Afterall, that's how Harry really beats Voldemort - with emotion.

Also, weren't we supposed to learn something about what's behind the veil and in the secret room at the Ministry? She has left a few questions out there still (as I indicated in earlier posts).

This post has been edited by Witherwings: Jul 22 2007, 04:14 PM

[rkiser]

I should add one thing about the epilogue... part of why I didn't want JK to explain all of those details to me (aside from the fact that I think these details were obvious and others would have been more interesting is this:

I like thinking of Harry as a smart, mature kid. Yes, I say kid... because when you make an epilogue 19 years later, it means Harry is all of a sudden a middle-aged man. I mean, jeez. That's just crazy to think about. I'd rather imagine how he lived the next few years after this ordeal and what took place... did they ever finish their schooling in another year (recall that just because they had a year's adventure, and they're arguably more learned than other 7th years, there were still tests to pass and things that could be learned by finishing officially)? All of that good stuff. Now I know exactly how Harry will be as a middle-aged man... and I'd have rather left it to my imagination.... at least for a few years until JK or someone else decided to write a book about Harry's kids (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In all seriousness, it would have been nice to have another chapter... maybe it should have been the epilogue, but this is JK's book... that explained how things got set back into course... and how Harry dealt with everything in the coming weeks/months. I know she always ended her books right after the school year, but in this case, I felt I needed something last little things - to do a little more cleaning up and then done.

[rkiser]

We know that Grindelwald is still alive in book seven (though Voldemort later kills him). I think, therefore, that DD didn't have to kill Grindelwald to win the duel. Since that's the case, the wand being invincible wouldn't have mattered at all since there were other tools with which to defeat him. Therefore the duel might not have been a "wizards' duel" in the traditional sense, but maybe a sparring of ideas. Afterall, that's how Harry really beats Voldemort - with emotion.

Also, weren't we supposed to learn something about what's behind the veil and in the secret room at the Ministry? She has left a few questions out there still (as I indicated in earlier posts).

Witherwings, I agree. Perhaps that's how DD beat Grindelwald to win? A sparring of ideas much as Harry has done to beat Voldemort throughout. I'm not entirely convinced though that your reply satisfactorily answers my question (as in, I am still not satisfied that this is the answer). I feel like that duel is glossed over - and given everything else explained in this book about DD, I thought we would hear about the most famous part of DD's life some more ! (though perhaps Rita Skeeter was right when she hinted that Grindelwald may have handed it over with a white flag - meaning, as you indicated, that the duel of wits left Grindelwald realizing that the idea of having the Hallows was foolish and would never be the way to truly rule death.

I like your points on the unanswered questions from earlier (behind the veil and the secret room in the ministry). These - along with a few others - are just some questions that JK has either left unaswered due to time/pages to write or intends to leave us guessing... or leave room for later books?

[Witherwings]

Witherwings, I agree. Perhaps that's how DD beat Grindelwald to win? A sparring of ideas much as Harry has done to beat Voldemort throughout. I'm not entirely convinced though that your reply satisfactorily answers my question (as in, I am still not satisfied that this is the answer). I feel like that duel is glossed over - and given everything else explained in this book about DD, I thought we would hear about the most famous part of DD's life some more ! (though perhaps Rita Skeeter was right when she hinted that Grindelwald may have handed it over with a white flag - meaning, as you indicated, that the duel of wits left Grindelwald realizing that the idea of having the Hallows was foolish and would never be the way to truly rule death.

I like your points on the unanswered questions from earlier (behind the veil and the secret room in the ministry). These - along with a few others - are just some questions that JK has either left unaswered due to time/pages to write or intends to leave us guessing... or leave room for later books?

At one point in book seven (it's too large a book for me to find the exact quote) there is discussion about Grindelwald and the fact that he does feel remorse for what he has done in life. I think that's the important factor in his downfall.

[blinds]

Erm, in addition to who performed magic late in life, and the veil thing, what was the significance of Harry having Lily's eyes? Was it just that Snape loved Lily and recognized Lily in Harry's eyes?

And with Dumbledore's look of triumph in Goblet of Fire, that would be because of the blood, right? But I thought Harry only told him that Voldemort's back and killed Cedric before Crouch dragged him off, nothing to do with the blood IIRC. Don't have the book on me though, so I can't check.

[Arsi]

.....................................................WOW!!!!!.................................................

Ok, now that I have said that, I NEEDED to find out how it ended, but am sad that now it is all over. I am so glad that it does end well.

I was so scared of having the end spoiled that I refused to look at web sites, read the paper, watch TV. When I was in line waiting for my book, someone said that there were people shouting on the online game Warcraft trying to spoil the books. I am so GRATEFUL of the responsibility here. I don't know if I could have read the book knowing if Harry, Ron, Hermione, Ginny or Luna died.

Overall I would have to call the book an emotional rollercoaster. I was kind of vulnerable listening to it. I was told by a friend that he heard a rumor that Harry was supposed to be a squib, and the only reason he had magical power was Voldemort's power going into him, and if Harry actually lived the magic from the power transfered would be drained and he would then be a squib again.

Albus Severus Potter, could anything be more clear about the total and final acceptance.
James ?Sirius? Potter most probably his middle name

Molly vs Bellatrix shows the true power of love yet again.
I knew that this book would show the reason Neville was in Griffyndor

I admit that the biggest fear I had would be that JKR would change the story in order to prevent people from trying to write other Harry Potter books.

I had an annoying friend that we had a bet that Ron or Hermione would die. The bet was kind of a mistake for he would taunt me with saying how he would LOVE to feel the chocolate of the Toberlone melting in his mouthand savoring it as he thought back on their deaths since he KNEW one of them would die.

Still so many questions left ... is Lavender a werewolf.. How is George with Fred's demise....is Lupin/Tonks son a werewolf....who married Draco....What do any of the major characters do for a living, we ONLY know Neville's job. I know that we cannot have every question answered.

I now am going to restart the book again and now I can ponder a bit more since I know the ending, and in a way enjoy it even more.

This post has been edited by Arsi: Jul 22 2007, 04:59 PM

[rkiser]

One thing I wanted to discuss around the Elder Wand... in the final battle between Harry and Voldemort, it seems as if Voldemort is the one holding the Elder Wand (since after the spells are cast, the Elder wand is described as flying across the room until Harry catches it). How did Voldemort have the Elder Wand? I thought Draco had taken the Elder Wand....

My only explanation so far is that Draco was indeed the new master but he never had the Elder wand - but he had disarmed Dumbledore when they came to the top of the castle (in book 6), thus making him the new master of the wand (it couldn't have changed master's by the death of DD because that would have made Snape the master of the Elder Wand like Voldemort suspected - but this wasn't true). Thus, Draco was now the new master. But, somehow, the Elder Wand got buried with DD... hence, Draco did not have it, hence Voldemort actually had it... BUT Draco was the true master. Unfortunately for Draco, since Harry had wrestled Draco's wand from him earlier along with two others, perhaps that made Harry the master? As in, once you disarm a magician of their wand (clearly in some way other than just using a disarm spell because then you can imagine the Harry no longer being the master merely if he loses his wand), you are the master of the Elder Wand? Meaning, Harry was the rightful master but the wand wasn't with him and when Voldemort tried to kill him with it (both times), he ended up first only killing the Harry Horocrux with it - the piece of himself that rested inside Harry - and next, when he tried to kill Harry again with it, the wand wouldn't allow it since Harry was its master, thus the spell rebounded to Voldemort.

Does this make sense? Are there other explanations? I find the Elder Wand confusing mainly because it seems that Harry would have to have it if Draco was the master before and had taken the wand from DD... but the wand clearly left Voldemort's hands in the air, meaning that Voldemort had the wand. So perhaps being master of the wand does not require you to be in possession of the wand or to murder a wizard for it or to even cast a charm (Harry took Draco's wand and the other two just by wrestling them away from him in the scrum at the Malfoy's mansion). Those are my thoughts - would love to hear more on this subject...

[Witherwings]

And with Dumbledore's look of triumph in Goblet of Fire, that would be because of the blood, right? But I thought Harry only told him that Voldemort's back and killed Cedric before Crouch dragged him off, nothing to do with the blood IIRC. Don't have the book on me though, so I can't check.

The look of triumph came when Harry was recounting all that happened. The fact that Voldemort had Harry's blood in him meant that Harry couldn't be killed while Voldemort lived (nor could Voldemort be killed so long as the park of Voldemort inside Harry lived). When Voldemort first killed Harry, he killed the part of his soul in Harry. Since he killed the part in his soul, when Harry killed Voldemort, Voldemort was finally able to die.

I still can't believe the eight horcruxes thing. It looks like we've been led by red herrings.

"I admit that the biggest fear I had would be that JKR would change the story in order to prevent people from trying to write other Harry Potter books."

Well, no one can write other Harry Potter books unless she sells copyright. The copyright will last for the rest of JK's life (copyright lasts for 28 years and then can be renewed for another 28 when she's in her 60's) and her family can then renew the copyright after her for another 28 years.

"Still so many questions left ... is Lavender a werewolf.. How is George with Fred's demise....is Lupin/Tonks son a werewolf...."

I couldn't tell if Lavender was dead or alive. Was it that she had fallen and died? But I don't think Fenrir was in Werewolf form. Either way, Trelawney sacking him with a crystal ball was cool. And Lavender and Bill, though perhaps scarred, would have been cured of being a werewolf with the death of Fenrir (I do think he was killed). Tom Lupin would not be a werewolf because he wasn't bitten by a werewolf - the genes don't carry through birth.

Did anyone also notice Pettigrew redeemed himself? I guess we can list him as a "good guy" death.

As for the wand issue: Here's how I understand it. A wand cannot be turned on it's own master. When Harry wrestled the wand away from Draco he became the master of Draco's wand. Since the Elder Wand (yes, buried with DD - such a disgraceful thing taking it from the tomb) was also Draco's, the Elder Wand wouldn't act against the owner of Draco's wand (which is Harry).

This post has been edited by Witherwings: Jul 22 2007, 05:51 PM

[baty4potter]

My hunch is that either McGonagall is still alive and headmistress (she's not as old as Maggie Smith portrays her to appear) or that Sprout became headmistress and Neville took her position. As for Minister, I'm guessing it was Kingsley (I don't think any of the other characters had the personality for the job). I'm certain Ron and Harry are aurors and Hermione working for the Care of Magical Creatures. Hagrid was still alive in the epilogue as well (if you didn't catch it, Harry says Hagrid invited them to tea). Draco was still alive too (though we don't know who his wife is, so I'm guessing it's not Pansy). I didn't understand the look Draco gave to Harry after everything that happened. Percy is alive (was Percy perhaps the new Headmaster??). My guess is that all the others were still alive too (they mention grandpa Weasley). Victorie was most like Bill and Fleur's daughter because the Weasley kids call her "cousin". (Perhaps Victorie could have been Dudley's daughter - would be interesting no?) I also think the jinx Voldemort put on the position would have disappeared after he died so whoever became "DADA" teacher (maybe Luna) would be safe in that job for a long time.

As for the rock - it fell into the Forbidden Forest and my guess is, if it's found, it will be found by a centaur or other magical creature and will be safe from harm's way. I do believe Harry will die a natural death (I don't think he was forshadowing another book in which he dies and the wand becomes powerful again - besides, it would have to be found). Maybe Draco's son will recover the wand and there will be a new battle, but I do think Draco has seen enough of death as a child. He lost one of his best friends after all (and boy, that was an awesome end to a THIS IS A GOOD WAY TO GET YOURSELF BANNED FROM THE BOARDS!!!! DO NOT *EVER* USE STARS TO INDICATE ANY CURSE WORD ESPECIALLY SOMETHING LIKE THAT!!!!!).

I do believe that Rowling is, indeed, done with Harry Potter and that if she returns, it will be to write Hogwarts a History by Hermione Granger (updated after the battle) - that's my guess. But it was a good ending.

My one question - who develops magical skills later in life? I didn't see anyone who fit that description in this book.

[crmhpfan]

I can't believe it. I was on here last night before I went to bed, and there wasn't much of a discussion going, I wake up, and it looks like I've missed out on all the fun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) .

LOVE to feel the chocolate of the Toberlone melting in his mouth

It is a good chocolate lol.

Try somewhere like K-Mart or somewhere not so booky. They're less liekly to keep them or anything.

Thanks! I didn't even think of that...

And what kind of name is Scorpio? I can't imagine naming a kid that.

Wasn't it Scorpious?

DD talked about how the greatest magical power of all was love, right. So maybe, it was Dudley. I know this doesn't make much sense, but I'm really just looking for a character to fit that description.

Maybe. That seeems like the crazy thing Jo would do.

I love that Harry is playing the role that Sirius played for him.

Yeah, I liked that too. Because it's kind of like the same circumstances for Harry. Harry had no parents, but a Godfather who was his parents' friend. Now Teddy has no parents, but a Godfather who was his parents' friend, so it fits in nicely.

Although, I have to say the fight between Voldemort and Harry was a bit anti-climactic. I was expecting more of a fight and a struggle. I was disapointed in that part actually... but expectations were high concidering I've been waiting for Harry to kill Voldemort for six years...

Same here. I was a bit annoyed at Voldemort's kind of lack of fighting back. He just kind of stood there. No fancy spells or anything.

When Harry figured out he had to die, i was crying so hard, i could barely read the words!

He he yeah, I actually had to put the book down, wipe my eyes, and take a few deep breaths lol.

[Witherwings]

Erm, in addition to who performed magic late in life, and the veil thing, what was the significance of Harry having Lily's eyes? Was it just that Snape loved Lily and recognized Lily in Harry's eyes?

I think the significance of Lily's eyes meant that Harry had a soul much like his mother (and unlike his father) in that he knew how to have sympathy and feel genuine remorse. Remember, I don't think we're literally talking about "eyes" but eyes as metaphors - doorways to the soul. Not that James didn't know sympathy, but that Harry had it more. This connection between him and his mother is what allowed Harry to walk into the campground, head held high, prepared to meet his death. Now, his sacrifice didn't really seem to pass on the same protection because the protection really came from Harry in the invisibility cloak. He had genunine sympathy for Snape at the end (even giving his child the middle name "Severus") and for Voldemort (the "baby" I assumed to be the part of Voldemort's soul within Harry that was destroyed).

[DARK*VS*LIGHT_SE...]

Hey well I read the book in two day and i love is really awsome .One of the things i love the most is the fact the Snape love Lily.But i think JK should tell us what happenmd with the Dursly and with the teacher at hogwart or the Death Eather inclusive work they all end with an what happend with Luna Lovegood (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ravenclaw.gif)

[ppbl]

I think Trelawney is the one who manages to do magic late in life. Yes, she is a Hogwarts teacher, but have we ever seen her do magic before the final battle?

[You-Know-Poo]

I think Trelawney is the one who manages to do magic late in life. Yes, she is a Hogwarts teacher, but have we ever seen her do magic before the final battle?

You might be on to something here...

In PoA, she makes them grab the teacups instead of passing them out with magic

[rkiser]

You might be on to something here...

In PoA, she makes them grab the teacups instead of passing them out with magic

It's a good theory - but if it's true, I'm disappointed JK didn't make it a bit more obvious - she made it seem like someone we really knew was going to do magic later.. this seems like a one sentence side-note to fulfill what JK had promised.

Another way to look at this is that a bunch of the hints JK dropped have been relatively small in the grand scheme of things... makes sense to keep the bigger things a secret, but goes to show you that even when we were deducing things, we still weren't positive that we were right (though RAB was a pretty obvious one and I'm glad that it was as we expected - otherwise we'd have another 100 pages explaining some other RAB character!

[crmhpfan]

You might be on to something here...

In PoA, she makes them grab the teacups instead of passing them out with magic

Mmmm...maybe. But DD probably would not have appointed her a teacher if she hadn't performed magic, and she has performed magic by making the prophecies.

This post has been edited by crmhpfan: Jul 22 2007, 08:59 PM

[Witherwings]

what happend with Luna Lovegood (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ravenclaw.gif)

Wouldn't it be awesome if she had married Neville?

[rose]

My only explanation so far is that Draco was indeed the new master but he never had the Elder wand - but he had disarmed Dumbledore when they came to the top of the castle (in book 6), thus making him the new master of the wand (it couldn't have changed master's by the death of DD because that would have made Snape the master of the Elder Wand like Voldemort suspected - but this wasn't true). Thus, Draco was now the new master. But, somehow, the Elder Wand got buried with DD... hence, Draco did not have it, hence Voldemort actually had it... BUT Draco was the true master.

I think that the reason that the Elder wand was buried with Dumbledore was that at the time that he died no on knew that it was the Elder Wand. The reason that Harry became the master of the Elder wand was because as he described it in his fight/talk with Voldemort that Draco disarmed the DD when he was the master of the Elder wand making Draco master, then when Harry took Draco's wand, even though it wasn't the Elder Wand he became master.

Also one thing I was thinking of, wouldn't Voldemort and Harry be related. Because Harry is a decendent of Ignotus Pervell, and Voldemort's Grandfather (Gaunt) said that he was a descendent of the Pervell's, and that's why he had the resurrection stone, however distant the relation may be, they are still relatives.

[thesilverdoe]

And after all this time I'm still glad Snape died...I'm sorry but he only cared about Lilly. He would have let James and Harry die. He believed all the pure blood stuff and he didn't care who else died. As Sirius said the world isnt split into good people and Death Eaters. Snape wasn't a good person. He was on the right side for the wrong reasons.

in fact, this isn't quite accurate. In the chapter "The Prince's Tale", when Dumbledore informs Snape that Harry must die in order to overcome Voldemort, Snape is outraged -- he responds that he's been played and he thought the whole point was to keep Harry alive all these yeras. Dumbledore is stunned in turn and questions/observes that Snape appears to love Harry and Snape replies "Always".

In addition to Snape's feelings for Harry, one must only read the chapters on his care for Dumbledore--e.g. caring for him and his withered hand (remember Snape says "if only you had come to me earlier I could have helped you more"--to understand that Snape cared for Dumbledore as well. And the fact that he put himself in mortal danger for years would also be proof that he cares for a world that is greater than himself.

I love that JKR included showed that someone who is a prickly pear, a person who made terrible mistakes, can also be a hero of self-sacrifice. And remember that he didn't do it for glory -- when agreeing to protect Harry Snape absolutely made Dumbledore promise (in Dumbledore's words) "never reveal the best part of you (Snape)" . As Dumbledore tells Harry in the OOTP, we all contain good and bad within us, it is our choices that define who we are. Snape, after tapping into both the bad and good, ultimately through very difficult and courageous choices, reveals his decision to embrace goodness and love.