SPOILER WARNING!!!What do you think about DD?, there must be a catch... Options

[hannahviolin]

In Goblet of Fire, Moody/Crouch stated that one can survive the avada kedavra.  Perhaps it was a set up by Snape and Dumbledore.
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I dont' have my book in front of me, but I think what he stated was that only ONE has ever surived the avada kedavra, and that was harry. DD is dead, sorry! But I really think it's for a good reason....it HAS to be. I wasn't on the boards before, because the other books didn't affect me like this one did, but when DD died the way he did...I was so upset, and I couldn't handle it alone (hence the boards) but I did not doubt it to be true. DD is not a coward, and I don't think he would have faked his own death. I don't know how he would have faked the Malfoy family's deaths...and Petigrew has faked his death obviously, but the fact is that DD's picture is up. that clenches is for me. And everyone's reaction upon hearng the news...hagrid's, mr. Weasley's (dumbledore dead?). Everyone was so upset. I feel it has to be for a godo reason, it HAS to be, and I realy hope the order can cntinue to function properly without dumbledore.

[ChimpBananers]

Uh, thank you. Finally someone who agrees. And the whole picture/portrait thing, I'm glad you believe that, too.

[cruticus]

Ya know what?  Something just came to me, and  *now*  03;) I'm a little confused.  I still don't understand why DD *forced* Harry to make him drink the water.  Now this has got me thinking.  There has to more to it then just the Horcurx.  I have got to go back and start rereading the book.
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good point baty! That does sound odd, well i'm going to read it pretty soon too!

[Witherwings]

I dont think so. I think that he knew that in order to get the horcrux, he would need to complete the drink and he didn't want to. I'm more perplexed by what he said as he drank.

[Ill Will]

I dont think so. I think that he knew that in order to get the horcrux, he would need to complete the drink and he didn't want to.  I'm more perplexed by what he said as he drank.
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Exactly, he had to drink it to get the horocrux, nothing more. The water itself was not a horcrux, the locket that RAB took was. And there's no way that RAB is DD, RAB will probably be some kind of mentor replacement for DD in book 7. Someone to train harry.

The first step in greiving the loss of a loved one is denial. You guys should be just about ready to move on to the rage step. DD is dead.




The real question is; has RAB ever been mentioned in any of the books before? He might have been, like by only his first name or surname. JKR likes to do that sort of thing (e.g. mrs figg).

[baty4potter]

Iwouldn't call it denial, people like to theorize and figure out what JK's plot is. I know I've been putting different spins on it, and will do so till the next book comes out.

[Priapus]

I agree that Snape is not evil or loyal to Voldemort (even though I still hate him for killing DD).  Just before Snape disapparated near the gates, he told Harry to keep his mouth closed and his mind shut (can't remember the exact quote).  This sounds like helpful advice for Harry--practice occlumency and nonverbal spell casting.  I can't think of any reason why Snape would say such a thing other than to give Harry last minute instructions before he left.  Of course Harry never listens to Snape so don't expect him to do much homework in this area.

I also agree with those saying that DD and Snape had prepared for DD's death ahead of time.  I suspect Snape made an unbreakable oath with DD to help fight against Voldemort a long time ago which is why DD trusted him implicitly.  Pure speculation on my part.[right][snapback]75868[/snapback][/right]

I agree that the Unbreakable Vow Snape made with Draco may not have been his first experience with that particular spell. This could be one explanation for Dumbledore's complete faith in Severus.

And Snape did tell Harry exactly what he needed to be able to do in order to successfully fight Voldemort and the Death Eaters. It's too bad that Harry has such a huge blind spot about Snape, but I expect he'll eventually figure it out.

[baty4potter]

I agree that the Unbreakable Vow Snape made with Draco may not have been his first experience with that particular spell.  This could be one explanation for Dumbledore's complete faith in Severus.

And Snape did tell Harry exactly what he needed to be able to do in order to successfully fight Voldemort and the Death Eaters.  It's too bad that Harry has such a huge blind spot about Snape, but I expect he'll eventually figure it out.
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I think that blind spot works both ways. Snape has treated Harry badly. Who is the grown up here. Like any teenager, Harry is going to fight back at someone who comes at him, like Snape did right from the *beginning*. In fact I don't know anyone who wouldn't defend themselves when someone starts at you, and you know nothing about them.

[Ill Will]

Iwouldn't call it denial, people like to theorize and figure out what JK's plot is.  I know I've been putting different spins on it, and will do so till the next book comes out.
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Furshur, and I'm not saying you shouldn't.

[Witherwings]

I think RAB will turn out to be Regulus Black. I wouldn't be surprised if Slughorn rose up to mentor Harry. Perhaps that's what DD knew all along. Before he goes with Harry to retrieve the Horcrux, we are told that he knew what he must do. However, we aren't told what that is. I'm still perplexed by what DD said when he drank the water. There's a lot of stuff packed in there, and if we can unpack it, we might better understand what is going on. BTW, is Harry the heir of Gryffindor?

[ileana23]

I think that Dumbledore is truly dead and that he knew he was going to die. In the argument between Dumbledore and Snape, Snape tells DD he was asking too much of him, maybe DD was telling him he had to kill him, after all he had made the Unbreakable Bow and DD probablu knew about it, so he told Snape the only way to keep his cover and for Harry to cintinue looking for the Horcruxes and destroy Voldemort was killing him if he had to. I think he will probably be back in book 7 may be as a ghost. But that 's just me... 15^_^

[mclagganhater]

Dumbledore is not dead. He waited for Malfoy to get the cupboards working before taking Harry off to the location of the Horcrux. The reason he took Harry was because the potion covering the locket is actually the only known protection against the Avada Kedavra spell. The potion had never been successfully drunk before because drinking it was so painful and DD knew Harry could be trusted to make him drink it all. DD was aware of the unbreakable vow Snape made with Malfoy's mother and had protected himself, Snape acted exactly how DD was expecting, otherwise why did he not kill Harry at the end?

I believe that Dumbledore has been long dead since around book 4-5 (because of the fake hor-thingy and R.A.B. {real albus dumbledore}) and i dont really think that Snape here 43:dunno: is really evil 43:dunno: but still 05:(

Malfoy Draco I suspect is a Death eater but hadn't really want to go on Lord D's orders because of the way he did it or he would have killed Dumbledore right after his Disarming spell.

DD here is...well 10a:rolleyes: a bit to security sensitive but here,....

[moose]

just a quick thought....if Snape was really not a death eater, why would he stun Flitwick? Flitwick would have only been another enemy for the death eaters...

[Rigel Black]

I don't think Snape is playing good guy and pretending to be on the bad side... I think he's really on the bad side and I honestly don't think he planned Dumbledore's death with him ahead of time.
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We're forgetting one possibility here: Snape may not be on either side. If, as I have posted elsewhere, Snape had been in love with lily, then Snape's aim is the destruction of Voldemort. If you believe he's evil, then that would be because Snape wants to be the next Dark Lord. If you believe - as I do - that Snape loved Lily, then his objects are revenge and redemption.
It's plain to me that Snape does not know of the Horcruxes, because it seems virtually certain that he would have destroyed them after Voldemort's fall in Godric's Hollow, regardless of which motivation pushed him.

I am not convinced that Snape is working for anyone other than himself, and that he and Harry are at cross purposes because they both want to do the same job.


:: on edit - left out a phrase

[Rigel Black]

The reason he took Harry was because the potion covering the locket is actually the only known protection against the Avada Kedavra spell. The potion had never been successfully drunk before because drinking it was so painful and DD knew Harry could be trusted to make him drink it all. DD was aware of the unbreakable vow Snape made with Malfoy's mother and had protected himself, Snape acted exactly how DD was expecting, otherwise why did he not kill Harry at the end?

I believe that Dumbledore has been long dead since around book 4-5 (because of the fake hor-thingy and R.A.B. {real albus dumbledore})

No.
RAB is Regulus Black. He succeeded in removing the locket - which is now at #12 Grimmauld Place (cf OOP chapter 6 - one of the things found during the cleaning was "a heavy golden locket none of them could open."
How did Regulus get the locket? Simple. He also had a non-wizard companion who would do exactly as he was told. Kreacher, the Blacks' house-elf, fed Regulus the potion covering the locket.
Dumbledore is dead, and died at the end of HPB. Otherwise, his portrait would have appeared long before. However, Harry can still communicate with him through the portrait. I also wonder whether a portrait of Dumbledore might survive in Godric's Hollow (doubtful) or somewhere else. If Harry returns for his seventh year, then it will be the portrait in McGonagall's office; otherwise, another portrait seems likely. Possibly Phineas Nigellus could be a go-between from Albus' portrait at Hogwarts and Grimmauld Place.

::on edit - whoever took the locket referred to Voldemort as "The Dark Lord." The only ones who use that phrase have all been past or present Death Eaters.

[Mickey Fanatic]

I think that DD is dead. But I think that there was a plan with Snape. It is easier to accept that DD is dead than his trust was misplaced in Snape. When Snape came into the scene DD did seem like he was pleading with Snape to do the curse.

I really hope that it turns out that Sanpe is actually good. For some reason I like him.

[Ill Will]

No.
RAB is Regulus Black.  He succeeded in removing the locket - which is now at #12 Grimmauld Place (cf OOP chapter 6 - one of the things found during the cleaning was "a heavy golden locket none of them could open."
How did Regulus get the locket?  Simple.  He also had a non-wizard companion who would do exactly as he was told.  Kreacher, the Blacks' house-elf, fed Regulus the potion covering the locket.
Dumbledore is dead, and died at the end of HPB.  Otherwise, his portrait would have appeared long before.  However, Harry can still communicate with him through the portrait.  I also wonder whether a portrait of Dumbledore might survive in Godric's Hollow (doubtful) or somewhere else.  If Harry returns for his seventh year, then it will be the portrait in McGonagall's office; otherwise, another portrait seems likely.  Possibly Phineas Nigellus could be a go-between from Albus' portrait at Hogwarts and Grimmauld Place.

::on edit - whoever took the locket referred to Voldemort as "The Dark Lord."  The only ones who use that phrase have all been past or present Death Eaters.
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Good find, good eye!

[legion]

I think snape didn`t really want to kill dumbledore (read the book!) when Narcissa asked Snape to perform the task voldemort had set Draco to his hand flinched but did not move away. I take this as evidence that he did only act as he did out of (fatherly?) love for Draco and/or fear of Voldemort.

By the way the argument between Dumbledore and Snape might have been that Snape was scared and didn`t want to pretend to be a death eater no more..

i am actually confusing myself thinking about this .....


PLEASE HELP.... 12:wacko:

[Witherwings]

From the very beginning of book 6, it seemed Dumbledore was quite angry with Snape, calling the occlumency lessons a fiasco to Harry who has always hated Snape, giving Snape the cursed Defense Against Dark Arts position, telling Harry not to count his O.W.Ls before they arrived as he was sure he didn't score high enough to enter into Snape's N.E.W.T. class. I think Dumbledore might've been quite angry about the Unbreakable vow Snape made with Narcissa. The interview with JK tells us a little bit about Dumbledore in book seven in a very mysterious way. It looks to me like she's not fond of Snape, so I don't think he's going to be heroic. But it looks like there might be a great deal more about Dumbledore's death than we've been made aware of. Of course, JK also tells us she is quite like Dumbledore and that to her, the hero must go forward by himself. If that's the case, Dumbledore might have sacrificed himself so that Harry could go on. I think he froze Harry from getting, who he was originally sending him towards, recognizing what was about to take place. However, the way JK interviews indicates that she might not have fully killed off Dumbledore.

[Ill Will]

^^^ Where's this inter view (please)?