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> Harry's Eyes, Do we finally know why their special?
Erised
post Aug 5 2005, 05:30 PM
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JK Rowling once said that the fact that Harry has Lily's green eyes is important. I think that their importance has been revealed in HBP. I think Harry's green eyes are important because they reminded Slughorn of Lily. It's because of her memory that Slughorn finally hands over the crucial memory that Dumbledore has wanted all this time. Dumbledore says the memory will "undoubtedly be our most crucial piece of information of all." (page 348, British ed).

British Ed., page70
QUOTE
Slughorn: You look like your father
Harry: Yeah, I've been told.
Slughorn: Except for your eyes.  You've got-
Harry: My mother's eyes, yeah
Slughorn: Yes, well.  You shouldn't have favourites as a teacher, of course, but she was one of mine.  Your mother, Lily Evans.  One of the brightest I ever taught...etc

In the chapter, 'After the Burial', Slughorn is really affected when Harry recounts his parent's murder. But its important to note that Felix Felicis makes Harry dwell on his mother's last moments (and not his father's). Slughorn is so distraught that he can't bear to hear the rest.
After Slughorn gives Harry the memory,

British Ed, page 459
QUOTE
'You're a good boy,' said Professor Slughorn, tears trickling down his fat cheeks into his walrus moustache.  'And you've got her eyes... just don't think too badly of me once you've seen it...'


So what do you guys think?
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Bunnyc
post Aug 5 2005, 07:07 PM
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I expected it to be something more dramatic than that, but it's a good
theory. I was re-reading the book last night; the part about Harry using
the bezoar stone, and how Slughorn gushed about it and compared Harry's
abilities with Lily's, I felt there's more going on here than meets the eye.
All along we've heard that Lily was excellent at Charms, but now all of a
sudden we're hearing from Slughorn that Lily was one of his all-time best
at Potions. This makes me feel that Lily had a close friendship with
Snape and that he allowed Lily to share the same Potions Book that Harry is
now using.
When James used Snape's own invention to hang him upside down by the foot,
maybe the reason for Snape insulting Lily was because he thought she'd betrayed
him by giving it to James?
A lot of 'ifs' I know, but it's fun speculating.
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Dobian
post Aug 5 2005, 08:46 PM
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QUOTE(Bunnyc @ Aug 5 2005, 05:07 PM)
When James used Snape's own invention to hang him upside down by the foot,
maybe the reason for Snape insulting Lily was because he thought she'd betrayed
him by giving it to James?
A lot of 'ifs' I know, but it's fun speculating.
[right][snapback]79566[/snapback][/right]


I think you're onto something. I said in another thread that Snape had a special relationship with Lily that will be revealed in the final book, and that explains his feelings toward Harry and his ultimate allegiance to the Order. He is not the traitor he appears to be in HBP.
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Erised
post Aug 5 2005, 09:34 PM
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If the theory is true then it does seem anticlimatic. But Slughorn's memory is the most important out of all the other memories because it reveals the means Voldemort took to become immortal, so in that sense, Harry's green eyes are very important
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spork
post Aug 5 2005, 10:21 PM
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It's a good theory and all, but i don't think that's the only thing going on with Harry's eyes. JKR also said something about them being green and i don't think Slughorn ever mentioned anything about that. But the whole theory where Snape allowed Lily to use his book is a good strong theory.
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ileana23
post Aug 5 2005, 10:55 PM
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I think this is a great theory although I have to confess, I'm soo annoyed!!!everytime the same thing, when people meet Harry "you look just like your father but you have your mother's eyes" 19:crazy: six books of the same thing!!! Soo I hope your right and Harry's eyes have served their purpose.
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spork
post Aug 5 2005, 11:08 PM
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Hey, i just got an idea! 37:idea:

Maybe the reason Harry has Lily's eyes is because of the magic Lily placed on him when she died for him! Could this possibly mean that Harry's eyes may change color when Harry turns 17 and the magic stops? I know that it probably has no relation to the main story plot at all but maybe someone else could build on this theory a bit? I know it's pretty weak but i still believe it.

Also, I don't think Harry's eyes have served their purpose yet!
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halfbloodprinces...
post Aug 6 2005, 09:42 AM
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QUOTE(spork @ Aug 5 2005, 10:08 PM)
Hey, i just got an idea! 37:idea:

Maybe the reason Harry has Lily's eyes is because of the magic Lily placed on him when she died for him! Could this possibly mean that Harry's eyes may change color when Harry turns 17 and the magic stops? I know that it probably has no relation to the main story plot at all but maybe someone else could build on this theory a bit? I know it's pretty weak but i still believe it.

Also, I don't think Harry's eyes have served their purpose yet!
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Why would the magic stop when Harrys 17!? His mother died to save thim ( thus the love bond ) and that wouldnt change just because he is an 'adult'.
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Erised
post Aug 6 2005, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE(halfbloodprincess393 @ Aug 6 2005, 09:42 AM)
Why would the magic stop when Harrys 17!? His mother died to save thim ( thus the love bond ) and that wouldnt change just because he is an 'adult'.
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I may be wrong, but I thought the protection Lily's sacrifice gave him completely ends when he is 17. Once he's 17, the 'love bond' no longer works. Dumbledore explains it to Harry and the Dursleys in the chapter, 'Will and Won't'.
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roguebludger
post Aug 7 2005, 11:16 PM
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OMG Bunny! I never thought about that...how did James know that spell? A spell that Snape created. Though I can't imagine Lily gave it to James. At that point she hated James. Does anyone remember who told Harry that spells "go in and out of fashion" in HBP when Harry asks about Levicorpus? I wonder if it was Lupin and he's hiding something.
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Dan_D_Lion
post Aug 8 2005, 12:04 AM
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QUOTE(roguebludger @ Aug 7 2005, 11:16 PM)
OMG Bunny! I never thought about that...how did James know that spell? A spell that Snape created. Though I can't imagine Lily gave it to James. At that point she hated James.  Does anyone remember who told Harry that spells "go in and out of fashion" in HBP when Harry asks about Levicorpus? I wonder if it was Lupin and he's hiding something.
[right][snapback]79957[/snapback][/right]

Yea, it was Lupin who told Harry about the spells going in and out.
It is a wonder how on earth James figured out that spell that Snape invented... Hmm, maybe James being the person he is, took the book from Snape. Though James reading a book? 19:crazy: I don't know, but it might be possible.
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Ominousshadows
post Aug 9 2005, 07:32 AM
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QUOTE(halfbloodprincess393 @ Aug 6 2005, 09:42 AM)
Why would the magic stop when Harrys 17!? His mother died to save thim ( thus the love bond ) and that wouldnt change just because he is an 'adult'.
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Here's what Jk said in an interview:

JK:That has been explained in the books to an extent, it has been explained in the books but possibly you haven't yet finished this book when it is made very clear. Harry receives magical protection from his mother's sacrifice as long as he remains close to her blood. In other words, Aunt Petunia. That protection won't continue to hold once he is a man, once he turns 17 - he is no longer given that protective aura by his mother, so Dumbledore wants him to go back one more time to ensure the protection continues to his 17th birthday and after that he really is on his own.

That pretty much clears it up for me! But I still wonder about his eyes...

I read a theory somewhere that his eyes are green for slytherin and Voldy's are red for gryffindor and they will finish the fight that godric and salazar started many years before.....

I kinda like that theory.......
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hpfan69
post Aug 9 2005, 08:51 AM
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well the way that i am interpting the love protection for harry is this,

as long as he stay's and is welcomed in his aunts house, voldemort will not be able to find harry and harry is protcected. dd used the love that had protected harry from being killed and has bestowed that spell on the dursley's home. this way when harry came home for the summer holiday's from hogwarts he will then be protected at all times. but, once harry becomes of age his aunt, uncle, and cousin will not be protected either once that spell/charm is lifted.

but, harry still has the protection of his mothers love inside him whether or not he stay's at his aunts home. this is why voldemort wanted only harry's blood when he made himself, i guess you can say, in human form.

it is intresting about the theory that erised had posted to start this thread. but i think harry's eyes are going to be more of a factor when he finaly duels voldemort in the end. this, i think will be the most sunificant part of what purpose of harry's eye's. meaning: when harry and voldemort duel and voldemort looks into harry's eye's, voldemort will see lily or maybe his own mother for that matter, and then there will be a big change in voldemort . more to the effect, voldemorts demise.
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twestann
post Aug 9 2005, 07:57 PM
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Well where to begin---there are so many ideas here and many of them very intriging.

First off, Lilly's eyes---they remind everyone of Lilly, thus a helpful bond with all those who loved her including Slughorn.However, I too believe that there is more to them then that. I think it has something to do with their green color but haven't figured out what yet.

As to the protection offered by Aunt Petunia--- I got the impression that Aunt Petunia was a little disturbed when she found out that Harry would come of age at seventeen and leave for good. I agree that the protection might work both ways and that Lilly's blood (sister) is not only protecting Harry from Voldemort but equally, Harry's being at the Dursleys protects them from Voldemort as well. Of course, Aunt Petunia is the only one who is aware of this.

Snape and Lilly ?????? Before HBP, I would have said that any "love" relationship was impossible but now I'm not so sure. If not a romance, then certainly a strong friendship must have existed between the two. Maybe that's what Dumbledore was referring to when he spoke of the remorse Snape felt at betraying the Potters. Snape certainly wouldn't have been all that sorry about James.
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cruticus
post Aug 10 2005, 12:59 AM
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I have written an editoral on this matter; here it is:

check out the link here
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hpfan69
post Aug 10 2005, 07:54 AM
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QUOTE(twestann @ Aug 9 2005, 07:57 PM)


As to the protection offered by Aunt Petunia--- I got the impression that Aunt Petunia was a little disturbed when she found out that Harry would come of age at seventeen and leave for good. I agree that the protection might work both ways and that Lilly's blood (sister) is not only protecting Harry from Voldemort but equally, Harry's being at the Dursleys protects them from Voldemort as well. Of course, Aunt Petunia is the only one who is aware of this.


yes, i saw that too about auntie petunia. but do you think that once harry does come of age that he will no long have any protection of his mothers love?? it was made obviously clear that the protection spell will be lifted once harry is of age. but that is the spell. we also know now that harry and voldemort are equal since voldemorts "rebirth". but , will his mothers love still protect him?? that's the question!

QUOTE
Snape and Lilly ?????? Before HBP, I would have said that any "love" relationship was  impossible but now I'm not so sure. If not a romance, then certainly a strong friendship must have existed between the two. Maybe that's what Dumbledore was referring to when he spoke of the remorse Snape felt at betraying the Potters. Snape certainly wouldn't have been all that sorry about James.
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i am sure there was a romance but just for one person, snape. i am sure he had strong feelings for lily, more then freindship, but that is all that happened between them. if you think back now, it makes sense that voldemort said to lily that night, step aside, it is not you i want. snape must have told voldemort not to kill lily and voldemort asured him he wouldn't. but they didn't count on her defending her son the way that she did. and when dd was telling harry about the remorse he, snape, felt that they were both killed, your right on that, it was more for lily the remorse then james.

someone had mentioned that in the pensive part (ootp), when snape snapped at lily, it was as if lily betrayed him. this is all making sense now for me.

but we all, i think, know that harry's eye's defintly has to do with lily. and i feel that when harry finaly duels voldemort, this is where we are going to see where the eye's come into play.
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twestann
post Aug 10 2005, 07:24 PM
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hpfan69

just a quick response to your responses---

I agree that Harry will retain the protection of his mother's love. I just think that he'll no longer find that protection viable in the Dursley's home.

Wouldn't it serve the Dursley's right if they finally discovered how significantly important Harry is to them when it's too late. I really look forward to Harry's telling them off in book seven and saying he never wants to see them again. Of course poetic justice would be that they desperately want to stay in touch with HIM.
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cruticus
post Aug 11 2005, 04:44 AM
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for those who had trouble with the link:

You Have Your Mother's Eyes
Editorial
By Cruticus

Sirius Black: “I expect you’re tired of hearing this, but you look so much like your father. Except, your eyes. You have…”

Harry Potter: “My Mother’s eyes.”
PRISONER OF AZKABAN DVD. SCENE 32.

Does that dialogue strike you as odd? The short conversation Sirius Black and Harry Potter have together after Harry and Hermione Granger save Sirius from going back to Azkaban prison? The words, “my mother’s eyes.”

Harry receives those same words countless times from nearly everybody that knew Lily and James Potter. “You have your mother’s eyes.” Throughout the nearly completed series of J.K Rowling’s acclaimed series yet; Harry Potter; the colour green is mentioned in so many ways. But the most common aspect green is mentioned, is due to the fact of Harry’s relationship between his mother Lily Potter. They both share the same coloured eyes. Green.

But where did Lily inherit her eyes from? Did she already have her own green eyes or did she, like Harry, inherit them from someone down the line of Lily’s family tree? These are very few questions that need to be answered regarding the colour of Harry’s eyes and his strong relationship of love between himself and his mother.

Lily, having green eyes and passing the genes onto Harry, just shows the only genetic relation between mother and son. Harry looks very much like his father, (which is also very much mentioned) but those aspects don’t seem to be that relevant. Why? Well, because they just don’t show a common path or link to the plot of Harry’s green eyes. Thus then leads to the assumption that Lily genetically passed her green eyes to Harry as a sign of protection.

Of course we all know that Voldemort can’t touch Harry while at Privet Drive or even come near him while Harry is still under the roof of his Aunt and Uncle, but when Harry is faced against Voldemort, Harry just seems to have the strength to retaliate with a force. Not because of his looks from his father, but due to the fact that Harry inherited his green eyes from his mother and one thing that Harry can never lose or even have taken away from – his mother’s love. Harry sees his mother’s love through his inherited green eyes. That gives Harry the will power to always defeat Voldemort.

Green, being the colour of evil in the Harry Potter books, may just not have an affect on Harry. Because as we all know, Harry isn’t evil. Voldemort is! But the strange thing is that Voldemort has red eyes. Harry has green. What a difference! Red can also mean the colour of evil, but in the Harry Potter series, it doesn’t seem that way. Look at the colour of Slytherin. I am not saying Harry is evil, (and I’m sure everyone will agree with me), we all know who is. However, to me, the colour of Harry’s and Voldemort’s eyes seem that it should be the other way around. Harry with red eyes, I agree, it doesn’t sound right, but on the other hand Voldemort with green eyes does sound right. So to me, are both Harry and Voldemort in the right ancestry or do they both belong with the colour in their eyes they have now?

Voldemort has red eyes. Were they his initial colour or could he have possibly been green before he was Voldemort? Green eyes as Tom Riddle in Slytherin? That question no one knows as such. And not even for myself can I work it out. But it is a possibility that maybe Voldemort did have green eyes because when he was Tom Riddle he was in Slytherin. Now, don’t get confused that I’m saying everyone in Slytherin house should have green eyes, but it strikes me as odd that I do think Voldemort did have green eyes previously as Tom Riddle, mainly due to the fact that he would have be making himself look like Harry in the sense that possibly some sort of relation to Lily. Very strange thought though, but I felt it had to be said somewhere.

As we all know, Slytherin house is green and Gryffindor house is red. Harry has green eyes and Voldemort has red. But why do both have each other’s houses’ colour in their eyes and not their own house colour in their own eyes? It always comes back to the eyes, doesn’t it? Yes. The ancestry or the inheritance. Which to believe or trust that Harry may just have some Slytherin in him because eof his inherited green eyes or that Voldemort has some Gryffindor in himself due to the redness in his eyes. I’m not really sure on that part, but I am convinced that Harry with green eyes and Voldemort with red, have some sort of power in that they can both repair the fight between Godric Gryffindor and Salazar Slytherin had when all started to break lose fifty years ago.

With all that has been discussed due to the fact that Harry has his mother’s eyes, it has bow led me to believe that Harry will find out more about his parents and the obvious accusation that yes, Harry does have his mother’s eyes, but does Lily have a long ancestry that explains the colour in both Harry’s and Voldemort’s eyes?
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hpfan69
post Aug 11 2005, 07:31 AM
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QUOTE(twestann @ Aug 10 2005, 07:24 PM)
hpfan69

just a quick response to your responses---

I agree that Harry will retain the protection of his mother's love. I just  think that he'll no longer find that protection viable in the Dursley's home.

Wouldn't it serve the Dursley's  right if they finally discovered how significantly important Harry is to them when it's too late. I really look forward to Harry's telling them off in book seven and saying he never wants to see them again. Of course poetic justice would be that they desperately want to stay in touch with HIM.
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dido on the responses:

to the first, i think that is a given. he won't have that protection once he is of age. i totaly agree with that, especialy since it is stated by dumbeldor at privit dr.

to the 2nd, yes, petunia i think knows, especialy now that voldemort is back, how important it is to have that spell on the house and harry around. what i don't think that she knew is that it had a time line to it. and now i am sure she is shaking in her shoes. as for dudley and vernon, they have no clue with what's going on and that they need harry around.
so i think that we are on the same page with our thoughts here.
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harrypotter
post Aug 12 2005, 08:02 PM
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I don't know that Harry's green eyes are a sign of the protection his mother gave him, because he had his eyes before he was born, but I have more to say about that further down. I also don't think that they are important because they remind people of lily, because as a children's author i doubt she expects the kids reading it to understand the symbolism. I think there's something more important to it.

On a related note, I remember JKR said that its important Lily is good at charms. Does anyone else think that calling the love that protects harry a "powerful spell" seem wierd. I just thought that she loved him and that set him apart from Voldemort. But I don't see why JKR would call it a spell for no reason. Maybe Lily did the opposite of a Horcrux, by putting her life or love into him. Im not saying that shes making herself invincible or living through Harry, pretty much the opposite: she weakened herself in order to protect her son. And Ive heard a saying that the eyes are the windows of the soul, and even if that sounds kind of corny you have to admit that they kind of identify a person. Sorry if this was all pointless, it sounds kind of like what other people were saying, but I know its different its just hard to put into words.
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