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> Was Dumbledore wrong???, or was he not?
iareaj
post Feb 8 2007, 07:27 PM
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i think that dumbledore made no mistake here. Although it is possible for voldemort to make another horcrux, he won't (i think). He believesin the power of the number seven, and lost or not, the diary makes seven, and another one would make eight. He can split his soul all the times he want. Actually, he did it. He did that every time he commited murder. when you do that, you split your soul. And, in seven of those ocations, he made horcruxes...
I think he didn't care too much if onewas lost... the diary was made to be read, so he could take the risk of losing it.
and for harry being one of the horcruxes... well, i know isa well known theory, but i don't agree with it... I don't know, voldemort could make harry a horcrus without intending to, when his curse backfired and "kill" him instead... But he thinks he didn't do it, or else, how do you explain that he made another one after his re-birth?
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kenemareseeker
post Feb 9 2007, 08:37 PM
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QUOTE(iareaj @ Feb 8 2007, 08:27 PM) [snapback]122416[/snapback]
i think that dumbledore made no mistake here. Although it is possible for voldemort to make another horcrux, he won't (i think). He believesin the power of the number seven, and lost or not, the diary makes seven, and another one would make eight. He can split his soul all the times he want. Actually, he did it. He did that every time he commited murder. when you do that, you split your soul. And, in seven of those ocations, he made horcruxes...
I think he didn't care too much if onewas lost... the diary was made to be read, so he could take the risk of losing it.
and for harry being one of the horcruxes... well, i know isa well known theory, but i don't agree with it... I don't know, voldemort could make harry a horcrus without intending to, when his curse backfired and "kill" him instead... But he thinks he didn't do it, or else, how do you explain that he made another one after his re-birth?

What horcrux did he make after his re-birth? I only remember Dumbledore's list of suspicions...nothing about one that was "freshly created". Also...I think many of the posters here are working on perceptions about how all this horcrux business works when we have very little dependable info. For one, we know that making a horcrux requires the commission of a murder, but I think a lot of the posts assume that every murder Voldemort commits creates a horcrux...that would be ridiculous...Voldemort must have killed hundreds of times to have the reputation he has. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/broom.gif)
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Hermione@13
post Feb 9 2007, 09:00 PM
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I think that DD was right and that V only had seven Horcruxes. V (IMG:style_emoticons/default/darkside.gif) made six Horcruxes, so he could have the magical number 7 as the number of split souls. Saying that, he probably thought that he would be more powerful with eight peices of soul, which is a pretty disgusting concept when you think of it.
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potter_freak24
post Feb 10 2007, 10:45 AM
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QUOTE(snapes_girl @ Sep 7 2006, 08:26 AM) [snapback]109714[/snapback]
I think Dumbledore had it right. Voldemort's first killing may have been the lady that had the Hufflepuff cup and the locket. He may have written the diary while at hogwarts and just kept it with him and used it as a horcrux years later. His memories were written in it. So if he used the diary as a horcrux years after he left hogwarts it would still have the same memories. So we don't really know when he actually turned it into a horcrux.

I don't agree with this.
I think the diary was first. In CS when tom riddle said that he made the diary to persevere his 16 (or 17 i don't remember) self. So I took that to mean that he made it at that age. It says in the books his first (that we know of) was the riddle family, while he was still in school. The lady with the Hufflepuff cup was a couple years after Hogwarts.
I also don't agree with Harry being a horcrux. Think about it logically. Why would voldemort make harry a horcrux and try to kill him. There must be some kind of spell or encantation to make it, because if it was just everytime YOU killed someone YOU made one. there would be several because of all the people voldemort killed.


Spell out all your words, you should know better!!! Next time post will be deleted!!!

This post has been edited by baty4potter: Feb 10 2007, 05:42 PM
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baty4potter
post Feb 10 2007, 05:41 PM
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For all who just don't seem to get it... From now on there will be no warnings about spelling your words out. I am going to delete the post.
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WickedWitchOfThe...
post Feb 15 2007, 10:58 PM
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QUOTE
What horcrux did he make after his re-birth? I only remember Dumbledore's list of suspicions...nothing about one that was "freshly created".
If I remember correctly, I believe that one would be Nagini.

QUOTE
I think a lot of the posts assume that every murder Voldemort commits creates a horcrux...that would be ridiculous...Voldemort must have killed hundreds of times to have the reputation he has.


That's not what I believe at all. In fact, he has committed murder hundreds of times. DD even said himself that Voldemort has killed enough to make an army of Inferi. No, every time he kills he splits his soul. Putting it in a Horcrux is another matter which will be addressed below.

QUOTE
V made six Horcruxes, so he could have the magical number 7 as the number of split souls. Saying that, he probably thought that he would be more powerful with eight peices of soul, which is a pretty disgusting concept when you think of it.
He wouldn't think he was more powerful with eight Horcruxes because, in his opinion, seven was the most powerful magical numer, not eight, not ten, not four. Seven. And to address the first part, the magical number seven is not the number of times he has split his soul. It's for the number of Horcruxes. As I said a bit ago, every time you kill, you split your soul. It's a definite. (Remember, I'm going on what information we have from the books.) The Horcruxes are what contain split pieces of soul that V put in them with the incantation. Off the top of my head there was the diary, the locket, the ring, H's Cup, something of Gryffindor's or Ravenclaw's, Nagini and V himself. Seven things that contain pieces of V's soul and are the Horcruxes as defined by DD.

QUOTE
There must be some kind of spell or encantation to make it, because if it was just everytime YOU killed someone YOU made one. there would be several because of all the people voldemort killed.


Explained above, but in short, yes, there is an incantation that must be said and no, we don't know it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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crmhpfan
post Feb 19 2007, 01:30 AM
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QUOTE(WickedWitchOfTheWest @ Feb 16 2007, 02:28 PM) [snapback]122598[/snapback]
Explained above, but in short, yes, there is an incantation that must be said and no, we don't know it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


But wouldn't there have to been someone who invented the spell? Or maybe it's written in a book or a piece of paper...Or maybe only the people who have made a hocrux know the spell... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
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WickedWitchOfThe...
post Feb 19 2007, 02:26 PM
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I'm sure someone invented it and it may be written somewhere, but the only information we have is that Hermione looked everywhere for information about Horcruxes and couldn't find any in any books in the school library and when viewing Slughorn's memory, the incantation to make a Horcrux was never said. We don't know it, though we do know that V definitely knows it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) In fact, I'd really like to know how he found out what it was. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
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Hermione@13
post Feb 19 2007, 08:53 PM
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I think, and it's quite clear, that V would go to any lengths to conquer death, so he probably researched it in the library; searched every source in Hogsmeade, Diagon Alley, maybe even Knockturn Alley to find out how to make a Horcrux and he probably found it in Knockturn Alley. From the memories that DD retrieved, I think he's made the right conclusions, such as, V is very dependent to only himself, so I think the memories he got show how V really is. All hail the great DD! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/gandalf.gif)
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WickedWitchOfThe...
post Feb 19 2007, 11:34 PM
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Oh yes, he would go to any lengths. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Jo even has him learning the incantation from Grindelwald himself. I'm not sure if we'll ever learn where he did learn it from unless it's an important part of the story, especially since the important thing is that he knows it and has created some. But I'm sure she's got some clever way cooked up for how he received that particular bit of information and I do hope that at some point she'll let us in on the secret. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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baty4potter
post Feb 20 2007, 06:48 AM
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QUOTE(WickedWitchOfTheWest @ Feb 20 2007, 12:34 AM) [snapback]122722[/snapback]
Oh yes, he would go to any lengths. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Jo even has him learning the incantation from Grindelwald himself. I'm not sure if we'll ever learn where he did learn it from unless it's an important part of the story, especially since the important thing is that he knows it and has created some. But I'm sure she's got some clever way cooked up for how he received that particular bit of information and I do hope that at some point she'll let us in on the secret. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It would be nice if Jo would write one more book to explain all the questions that will be still floating around about the whys and wheres of all the books.

As for the original question of this topic... Was Dumbledore wrong? I'm wondering what the questioner was asking about. Was it about the seven horcruxes? If so *was* Voldemort capable of making more horcruxes or once he *committed* himself to the seven did that lock him into it, or once the seven was *made* did this keep him from making more. OR... Is Voldemort so egotistical that he never gave a thought about the horcruxes being destroyed?

Just some questions to try and get some conversation going....

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Hermione@13
post Feb 20 2007, 09:58 PM
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Anyway, I think DD was right in many ways. I'm pretty sure he was absolutely correct about the seven horcruxes. I think that V will stay with just the seven Horcruxes and, as DD has said before, he(meaning V) doesn't sense it when a Horcrux is destroyed.
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crmhpfan
post Feb 21 2007, 12:46 AM
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Going back to the incantation: Maybe there isn't actually an incatation, maybe a special wand movement, or potion. Because when Wormtail helped make the potion to bring back Voldemort, he didn't say a spell, but just spoke a chant. Or maybe you just have to think it in your head.

This post has been edited by crmhpfan: Feb 21 2007, 12:48 AM
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WickedWitchOfThe...
post Feb 23 2007, 12:20 AM
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QUOTE(baty4potter @ Feb 20 2007, 05:48 AM) [snapback]122726[/snapback]
It would be nice if Jo would write one more book to explain all the questions that will be still floating around about the whys and wheres of all the books.

As for the original question of this topic... Was Dumbledore wrong? I'm wondering what the questioner was asking about. Was it about the seven horcruxes? If so *was* Voldemort capable of making more horcruxes or once he *committed* himself to the seven did that lock him into it, or once the seven was *made* did this keep him from making more. OR... Is Voldemort so egotistical that he never gave a thought about the horcruxes being destroyed?


Oh yes it would! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

From my own point of view about what we know, I'd have to say that V was capable of making more Horcruxes at any time, that he was not locked into it and that V is very egotistical, but he knows for a fact that the diary is destroyed. He can make more if he wants, but the thing behind it is that since seven is the most magical number to him, that he wouldn't make more because it would ruin the whole seven thing he's got going on. So I guess in a way, he's locked into the seven thing, but only by his own volition. But, this is just my interpretation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

QUOTE
Going back to the incantation: Maybe there isn't actually an incatation, maybe a special wand movement, or potion. Because when Wormtail helped make the potion to bring back Voldemort, he didn't say a spell, but just spoke a chant. Or maybe you just have to think it in your head.


I'd have to say that bit with Wormtail is how you interpret it. To me, yes, it seemed like a chant, but it seemed more to me like he was reciting the lines of ingredients for a potion. Bone of the father unknowingly given, flesh from a servant willingly given and blood of the enemy forcibly taken. The other little bits that were said do make it seem like a chant, but for the most part they come across as potion ingredients to me. That's just me though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But to get to the subject of the incantation, I say there is an incantation since Slughorn said it is a spell to encase the torn portion of the soul into an object. That doesn't mean it couldn't be a nonverbal spell, it very well could be. But the word "spell" to me says words must be thought/said for it to happen, that some kind of incantation must occur. Remember though, I could be way off. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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baty4potter
post Feb 23 2007, 06:54 AM
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QUOTE(WickedWitchOfTheWest @ Feb 23 2007, 01:20 AM) [snapback]122789[/snapback]
Oh yes it would! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

From my own point of view about what we know, I'd have to say that V was capable of making more Horcruxes at any time, that he was not locked into it and that V is very egotistical, but he knows for a fact that the diary is destroyed. He can make more if he wants, but the thing behind it is that since seven is the most magical number to him, that he wouldn't make more because it would ruin the whole seven thing he's got going on. So I guess in a way, he's locked into the seven thing, but only by his own volition. But, this is just my interpretation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I agree, being the egotistical git that he is, he's probably figuring that there is no way he can be destroyed. He did actually survive after the Harry ordeal, and live to have a body again. Though I can see him being so ugly that if it would be me I'd rather be not alive. :~/
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Hollie
post Jul 4 2009, 07:53 PM
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The diary was made into the Horcrux when he killed his father..he killed him first didn't he? Because he planted the false memory on Morfin Gaunt.

And now it's 2009 we all know that Harry was in fact 'The Accidental Horcrux' when voldemorts curse backfired and the piece of his soul latched onto the only living thing near by- Harry.

he he
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whitewolf
post Jul 11 2009, 01:59 PM
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Hi. Did you really think you could have a debate this delicious and leave me out! LOL Anyway, I just checked the volumes to make sure I got this right so here goes: We agree what a horcrux is but what we wonder is DD right about Harry being one. He was. To make a horcrux all you have to do is commit deliberate murder, and at the time of that murder you trap the soul fragment in a magical objective and (I hope I interpreted this right) seal it with a spell. And here I go assuming again, but I think the spell was a protective kind because after the soul was sealed the object became almost impossible to destroy.
So Voldermort goes to kill Harry, but he meets a defensive Lily, before he kills her places a shield charm on Harry. Like a real shield instead of penetrating it deflected, and as in the last battle backfired. The AK spell hit Voldermort, but because of the other horcruxes he did not died but diminished. Because his soul was again fragmented by the murders of James and Lily, the hit caused it to fragment and attached itself to the only magical thing in the room: Harry. Lily's spell sealed it. It sealed to protect Harry and in turn sealed the soul fragment. Thus when Voldermort went to destroy Harry he was unable to because Harry as now a protected horcrux.

If you cross reference Slughorn's memory (HBP) and Snape's memory (DH) you will get a jest of how it all happened. It's a phyist thing. (yuccck!)

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