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> the portraits
harrypotteraddic...
post Jan 22 2007, 03:08 PM
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when i first read that DD portrait was hung on the wall next to all the other previous head maters and mistreses.
i immediately felt relieved
the portraits in DD office speak, move, talk and think basically they are alive except in portraits.
but then DD portrait was not moving.
this had me thinking why dont all the wizards just make portraits of themselves. they ene up staying alive in them.
i also had this idea about sirus but i thought that he died because he simply did not have a portrait of himself.
anysuggestions as to how portraits move or talk and why DD's portrait was still?
i apologise if this topic was dicussed earlier.
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Arsi
post Jan 22 2007, 04:30 PM
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I had used the fact that Dumbledore's painting didnt talk as a major arguement of why I thought he wasn't truly dead, along with a few other clues thrown about.

I thought he would pull a "Gandalf" and come back in the 7th book, especially since he is so connected to a pheonix. I have since learned that this is not true.

J. K. Rowling wrote the book quite a while ago, and still might have been toying with the idea of bringing him back. and left it as an option.

The fact that the portrait did not talk could be highly significant, and also, how much does the portrait know, does it know all Dumbledore did up until he died? We have found out that the portraits are capable of learning and acting on their own. I feel the portrait alone is enough of a reason for Harry to return to Hogwarts, at least to question him about things.

This post has been edited by Arsi: Jan 22 2007, 05:39 PM
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baty4potter
post Jan 22 2007, 06:45 PM
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Well, JK said Dumbledore was dead, so I'm taking her at her word. As for the portrait, it said Dumbledore was slumbering, and I'll quote...
QUOTE
And a new portrait had joined the ranks of the dead headmasters and head mistresses of Hogwarts ... Dumbledore was slumbering in a golden frame over the desk, his half-mooned spectacles perched upon his crooked nose looking peaceful and untroubled.

So, he looked peaceful and untroubled, chew on that last bit for awhile, and figure out what that means. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laughing.gif)
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the_prisoner_of_...
post Jan 22 2007, 10:03 PM
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I don't think portraits are actually the dead person. After all all pictures move in the wizard world and not all of them are dead. What I mean is, they aren't connected anymore. They are different entities then those who died. Otherwise a portrait would be tountamount to a horcrux.
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harrypotteraddic...
post Jan 23 2007, 11:51 AM
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well yeah i agree that if portraits can completely think and act on their own then what is the use of horcuxes?
but still how can we explain the actions of the portraits we have seen in the 6 books so far
i am almost sure jk would post an explanation in her last book
as for harry returning to hogwarst i do think that if the portraits did turn out to know as much as DD knew before his death (i still cant believe he is dead)
then that is more than a good enough reason for harry to return who knows maybe he can find out who RAB is

This post has been edited by harrypotteraddict{liza}: Jan 23 2007, 11:53 AM
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Hermione@13
post Jan 23 2007, 08:29 PM
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It's possible that the portrait has the "brain" of the preson as in his/her memory, so this would mean that DD's portrait has his memory and knows everything DD knew all his life! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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the_prisoner_of_...
post Jan 23 2007, 10:55 PM
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but he is'nt DD. Memories will only get him so far. And thats if they even have the same memories or the full memories. It's Dumbledore's soul, his humour, his experiances that made him who he was. And I will not believe that a portrait of DD contains all that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Of course, it's not my book and JKR may choose to write it like that, but it would cheapen DD's character if his soul was in a portrait.

However, Harry could go to it, possibly for information. But not for guidance.
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iareaj
post Jan 23 2007, 11:46 PM
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i think that dumbledore wasn't still awake because he wasn't buried yet. Yes, i have no sources to support that, but that's what i think. Let's remember that we are dealing with a magical world, we must think magically. So it could be that a portrait of a dead person will only wake up once the body is buried... just an idea.
andby the way, there won't be "gandalf", JKR said that already, DD is dead.
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harrypotteraddic...
post Jan 24 2007, 03:17 AM
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ok i admitt that i know DD will notbe returning but i still cant believe it.
about the idea of portraits not having the complete soul of a person it is probably true becasue
what is the big fus about horcuxes?if portraits of a person stay forever and can contain the person's soul
on both cases i agree that if the portrait contained DD humor, memory, presence, then that is underestimating DD he was a great wizard and should therefor be remembred to be one who lived his life
the portrait sure can get harry so far but in the end i think there isa trick he ahs to figure out
maybe the phoenix would help harry
but this gives me another question
aphoenix doesnt die he is reborn from hsi ashes but hwo is it that in book6 when harry, the weaseley's and hermione were in the hospital wing (bill being attacked an all) they hear d the cry of the phoenix and when it stopped, harry somehow knew it was dead
how could it be dead?
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the_prisoner_of_...
post Jan 24 2007, 03:47 AM
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QUOTE
how could it be dead?

Well in a sense, it does die. Momentarily. But it is then re-born.

But thats another topic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
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Ramilda
post Jan 24 2007, 09:38 AM
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It does seem there is something different about portraits versus pictures (photo's or illustrations), but I dont know if it is meant to be significant. For instance, portraits are interactive--they respond to people who are near and talking to them. Photos and illustrations just seem to wander with other photo's or blindly wave as if they really don't know if/who is looking at them. Harry's parents pictures dont interact with him, but the fat lady does, etc.
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harrypotteraddic...
post Jan 24 2007, 01:08 PM
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QUOTE(the_prisoner_of_azkaban @ Jan 24 2007, 12:47 PM) [snapback]121798[/snapback]
Well in a sense, it does die. Momentarily. But it is then re-born.

But thats another topic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

can you please explain if not here can you tell me if there is a topic opened about thsi idea
i mean how could the portrait be dead and then is reborn?
and did jk offer any explanation in her books, interviews or website that any of you read, i mean i might have just missed it lol
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the_prisoner_of_...
post Jan 25 2007, 03:32 AM
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QUOTE(harrypotteraddict{liza} @ Jan 25 2007, 05:08 AM) [snapback]121806[/snapback]
can you please explain if not here can you tell me if there is a topic opened about thsi idea
i mean how could the portrait be dead and then is reborn?
and did jk offer any explanation in her books, interviews or website that any of you read, i mean i might have just missed it lol


Heh heh heh Liza. I was replying to something YOU said about the pheonix. This is what you said in this topic.

QUOTE
aphoenix doesnt die he is reborn from hsi ashes but hwo is it that in book6 when harry, the weaseley's and hermione were in the hospital wing (bill being attacked an all) they hear d the cry of the phoenix and when it stopped, harry somehow knew it was dead
how could it be dead?
THAT is what you said. And my statement was in reply to that. I did not mean the portrait was dead I was talking about the pheonix. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) And if you didn't mean that when you posted originally, maybe you should make your posts clearer.
And as I mentioned when I replied it's off topic.

QUOTE
It does seem there is something different about portraits versus pictures (photo's or illustrations), but I dont know if it is meant to be significant. For instance, portraits are interactive--they respond to people who are near and talking to them. Photos and illustrations just seem to wander with other photo's or blindly wave as if they really don't know if/who is looking at them. Harry's parents pictures dont interact with him, but the fat lady does, etc.


That's very true. However, pictures still respond. Penelope hid when the picture had coffee spilt on it (or whatever it was). But yes, they don't interact, they don't talk or anything.

We have to remember not all the headmasters would have been dead when their portraits were hung.
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harrypotteraddic...
post Jan 25 2007, 01:23 PM
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QUOTE(the_prisoner_of_azkaban @ Jan 25 2007, 12:32 PM) [snapback]121817[/snapback]
We have to remember not all the headmasters would have been dead when their portraits were hung.

but all the dead headmasters are those wiht portraits of them on the wall
i always assumed the portraits especially the headmasters) continue to interact with the preceding head masters\headmistress inorder to offer their advice from their past experience.
and about the phoenix portraits mix up i am sry i did not even realise the quote was form my post
sorry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
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Hermione@13
post Jan 25 2007, 09:40 PM
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I portraits on the walls do react to the current headmaster. There are many occurences of when this happeneed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
1.Phineas found out Sirius was dead and went to his Grimmauld Place protrait to find out.
2.DD asked the ones with a portrait in the MoM to check how Arthur's doing.
3.Phineas often says comments to what's happening.
The funny thing is the portraits pretend to not respond or pretend to sleep. I guess the portraits have the personality of the person.
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post Jan 27 2007, 12:20 PM
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My, oh my, oh my. This is a topic that will never be finished. The reason why is because Jo's comments on the subject contradict with what we've seen in the books so much that even I don't have any explanation as to why she said what she did.

QUOTE
All the paintings we have seen at Hogwarts are of dead people. They seem to be living through their portraits. How is this so? If there was a painting of Harry’s parents, would he be able to obtain advice from them?

That is a very good question. They are all of dead people; they are not as fully realised as ghosts, as you have probably noticed. The place where you see them really talk is in Dumbledore’s office, primarily; the idea is that the previous headmasters and headmistresses leave behind a faint imprint of themselves. They leave their aura, almost, in the office and they can give some counsel to the present occupant, but it is not like being a ghost. They repeat catchphrases, almost. The portrait of Sirius’ mother is not a very 3D personality; she is not very fully realised. She repeats catchphrases that she had when she was alive. If Harry had a portrait of his parents it would not help him a great deal. If he could meet them as ghosts, that would be a much more meaningful interaction, but as Nick explained at the end of Phoenix—I am straying into dangerous territory, but I think you probably know what he explained—there are some people who would not come back as ghosts because they are unafraid, or less afraid, of death.
But it's been very obvious that the interactions that DD has had with the portraits in his office in the past were very interactive. It was obviously not just catchphrases that those portraits were speaking at all.

QUOTE
why DD's portrait was still?


As was explained, he was sleeping.

QUOTE
I don't think portraits are actually the dead person. After all all pictures move in the wizard world and not all of them are dead.
I know this was said earlier, but there is a difference between a portrait and a picture/snapshot. But, I'm responding more for the "dead" part of your comment. For the record, I want it down that up until the moment when Harry sees the picture of DD sleeping in his frame, the pictures had always been described as "the previous headmasters and headmistresses of Hogwarts." It wasn't until Harry saw Dumbledore's that Jo said "the dead headmasters and headmistresses of Hogwarts." Interesting, don't you think? So, I tend to believe that every portrait on that wall is of a dead former head of the school. It would be interesting to see, though I know we won't, if Umbridge's portrait would join the walls when she kicks the bucket. As for the portraits joining the wall, I do believe that there is a connection between the Heads and the school and that is why when they die their portrait goes up on the wall. Nobody placed it there from what we can tell. It just sort of appeared.

QUOTE
i agree that if portraits can completely think and act on their own then what is the use of horcuxes?


Horcruxes can physically bring your form back, as we saw in the diary. But a portrait is totally contained in the portrait "world", for lack of a better word.

QUOTE
hear d the cry of the phoenix and when it stopped, harry somehow knew it was dead
how could it be dead?
I can understand how you interpreted what you read, but the way I interpreted it was not that Fawkes was dead, but that he had left the school, just like DD. Here, I'll post it:

QUOTE
And he knew, without knowing how he knew it, that the phoenix had gone, had left Hogwarts for good, just as Dumbledore had left the school, had left the world... had left Harry.


QUOTE
However, pictures still respond. Penelope hid when the picture had coffee spilt on it (or whatever it was). But yes, they don't interact, they don't talk or anything.


And that right there is the exact difference between a portrait and a picture/snapshot. Portraits interact, pictures/snapshots don't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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breadcrumbz
post Jul 19 2008, 10:28 PM
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Makes you wonder if there's portraits of the founders in the office or anywhere for that matter.

I agree with the "not buried yet" theory and I think that since Dumbledore was so intelligent, "a faint imprint" of himself would go a long way.
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