Sword of Gryffindor Options

[WBK]

I am confused. After a third re-reading, I have finally understood that Neville Longbottom pulled the Sword of Gryffindor out of the sorting hat that was burning on his head and killed Nagini.

The last time we saw the sword before that was in Gringott's when Griphook ran into the crowd of goblins shouting "Thieves! Thieves..."

How did it end up in the sorting hat?

This post has been edited by WBK: Aug 2 2007, 07:02 PM

[Arsi]

The sword is Goderic Gryffindor's as well as the hat. When a time of need a true Gryffindor can pull the sword from that hat. The sword was not in the hat when Harry pulled it to face the basilisk, he just had need and was a true Gryffindor.

I admit, it kind of puzzled me as well initially

[Witherwings]

I am confused. After a third re-reading, I have finally understood that Neville Longbottom pulled the Sword of Gryffindor out of the sorting hat that was burning on his head and killed Nagini.

The last time we saw the sword before that was in Gringott's when Griphook ran into the crowd of goblins shouting "Thieves! Thieves..."

How did it end up in the sorting hat?

Because it belongs to Hogwarts and as a magical artifact, it should have the ability to appear to whoever is a true Gryffindor and who needs it to complete a brave action. Just because the Goblin has it, it does not mean he "owns" it or can contain it. It does the same thing for Neville that it did for Harry.

This post has been edited by Witherwings: Aug 2 2007, 08:01 PM

[WBK]

Because it belongs to Hogwarts and as a magical artifact, it should have the ability to appear to whoever is a true Gryffindor and who needs it to complete a brave action. Just because the Goblin has it, it does not mean he "owns" it or can contain it. It does the same thing for Neville that it did for Harry.

Thanks for the information.

The sword is Goderic Gryffindor's as well as the hat. When a time of need a true Gryffindor can pull the sword from that hat. The sword was not in the hat when Harry pulled it to face the basilisk, he just had need and was a true Gryffindor.

I admit, it kind of puzzled me as well initially

Thanks for the information.

Please do not double post. If you want to quote more than one person's responses, simply click the + Quote button, and once you have chosen the quotes/responses you want to respond to, click the Add Reply button. I have joined your two posts. dijares

This post has been edited by Dijares: Aug 3 2007, 06:49 AM

[Nossist]

I didnt find it so confusing I understood that and when Harry pulled the sword it did the same thing with neville.

[xc coach]

After I finished the book the first time, it was evening. I sat and thought and thought about the Sword. I asked my older daughter, who had read the book before me, "How did Neville get the sword? She looked confused and said, "I don't know! I hadn't thought about it! Now I'm not going to be able to sleep!"

Well, she slept fine. I did too, until about 3am when I suddenly woke up and realised that the sword had come from the Sorting Hat because Neville had demonstrated his loyalty to Dumbledore AND because Neville is a true Gryffindor.

I was kind and didn't wake up my daughter until a more reasonable hour to tell her about it. She was grateful.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Witherwings]

After I finished the book the first time, it was evening. I sat and thought and thought about the Sword. I asked my older daughter, who had read the book before me, "How did Neville get the sword? She looked confused and said, "I don't know! I hadn't thought about it! Now I'm not going to be able to sleep!"

Well, she slept fine. I did too, until about 3am when I suddenly woke up and realised that the sword had come from the Sorting Hat because Neville had demonstrated his loyalty to Dumbledore AND because Neville is a true Gryffindor.

I was kind and didn't wake up my daughter until a more reasonable hour to tell her about it. She was grateful.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I just saw it as a simple parallel to what happens in Chamber of Secrets which, after OotP and now DH is my third favorite book. But that's just because of the Basilisk.

Harry needed it in CoS to defeat the Basilisk (a giant serpent) and he was able to pull it out of the sorting hat as a true Gryffindor (not that he was the heir).

Neville in DH is able to defeat Nagini (another great serpent) by pulling it out of the sorting hat as a true Gryffindor (also not that he's the heir).

This post has been edited by Witherwings: Aug 4 2007, 09:54 PM

[Archina]

Harry needed it in CoS to defeat the Basilisk (a giant serpent) and he was able to pull it out of the sorting hat as a true Gryffindor (not that he was the heir).

Neville in DH is able to defeat Nagini (another great serpent) by pulling it out of the sorting hat as a true Gryffindor (also not that he's the heir).

Hey, that's really cool! I was not confused about why he had the sword - he was a Gryffindor in need after all but I'd never noticed the parallel with the serpents. How neat! Good spotting Witherwings. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Archina]

Harry needed it in CoS to defeat the Basilisk (a giant serpent) and he was able to pull it out of the sorting hat as a true Gryffindor (not that he was the heir).

Neville in DH is able to defeat Nagini (another great serpent) by pulling it out of the sorting hat as a true Gryffindor (also not that he's the heir).

Hey, that's really cool! I was not confused about why he had the sword - he was a Gryffindor in need after all but I'd never noticed the parallel with the serpents. How neat! Good spotting Witherwings. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I was kind and didn't wake up my daughter until a more reasonable hour to tell her about it. She was grateful.

Now that's love! I woke my sis up after three to tell her I'd finished reading Harry. I wasn't impressed with her reaction (she mumbled a lot of stuff I couldn't understand). At least she didn't remember I'd woken her up in the morning!

This post has been edited by Archina: Aug 5 2007, 11:48 AM

[Fizzing_Whizzbee]

One has to wonder though. Griphook was so intent on getting the Sword back that once it disappeared to aid Neville, wouldn't that be a problem?

Yes the greater good was served by Neville using it, but goblins by nature are already somewhat distrustful of wizards, so the sword winding up back in the hands of wizards, might fuel the flames a bit there.

Or would goblins have much more profit (profit..not so much benefit) in Voldemort being defeated that they would not mind one little sword going amiss?

[Witherwings]

One has to wonder though. Griphook was so intent on getting the Sword back that once it disappeared to aid Neville, wouldn't that be a problem?

Yes the greater good was served by Neville using it, but goblins by nature are already somewhat distrustful of wizards, so the sword winding up back in the hands of wizards, might fuel the flames a bit there.

Or would goblins have much more profit (profit..not so much benefit) in Voldemort being defeated that they would not mind one little sword going amiss?

I don't think they could have stopped the sword from returning. I think it had enchantments placed on it by either its original owner (Gryffindor) or by someone after (maybe DD) which would ensure that the sword would return to Hogwarts when it was needed, regardless of who had possession of it.

I do have to say that the goblins probably were angry at the way Voldemort killed a Gringotts' goblin (and random people just standing around - either people or goblins - the scene). I'm certain they would have helped Harry after this because they were tired of being stepped on by wizards and that, with Voldemort in power, they would have been abused maliciously.

[quarkwright]

I've been mulling this over since i finished the book.

Harry promised to give Gryffindor's sword back to the goblins in exchange for help in robbing Bellatrix Lestrange's vault at Gringotts. That promise was kept for him, when Griphook left with the sword, leaving Harry and his friends behind.

We also learned in the planning stages of that adventure, that goblins have different views of ownership than humans do; and that this has caused much of the friction between the two races.

But then, at the end of the book, Neville pulls the sword from the Sorting Hat to strike at Voldemort.

I'm wondering about the path of the sword from Griphook to the Sorting Hat. How did the goblins react to the sword's return to Hogwarts? How did this affect future goblin/human relations? Did the goblins return to Gringotts? (I think I remember a mention somewhere that after the theft from Lestrange's vault, the goblins left) Where did the sword eventually end up? Did it stay at Hogwarts, or did Harry or anyone else feel compelled to return it to the goblins??

[Witherwings]

I'm wondering about the path of the sword from Griphook to the Sorting Hat. How did the goblins react to the sword's return to Hogwarts? How did this affect future goblin/human relations? Did the goblins return to Gringotts? (I think I remember a mention somewhere that after the theft from Lestrange's vault, the goblins left) Where did the sword eventually end up? Did it stay at Hogwarts, or did Harry or anyone else feel compelled to return it to the goblins??

First question: I think the goblins would have been upset, but after the attack of Voldemort upon Gringott's and the killing of at least one goblin (I can't tell if in this chapter it's only one or more than one), probably more willing to side with Harry's cause. Remember that Griphook says that Harry is an odd wizard. After witnessing what Voldemort does to his kind, I think he'll be angrier with Voldemort.

2) I don't think it did anything to strain the relationship (see first question). I also think once Hermione and Harry entered into the Ministry and (as JK said) there were massive changes to the magical world for the benefit of everyone (goblins and elves included), there would be a better understanding between the two races.

3) Which Goblins are you talking about leaving Gringotts? Griphook only left the vault which was far underground in Gringotts. I don't think they would have left Gringotts. As for Griphook returning to Gringotts, I think that would be a temporary yes, because where else would he go?

4 + 5) The sword likely stayed at Hogwarts. My guess is that even if anyone tried to return the sword, it would continually return to Hogwarts because of an enchantment placed upon it. Perhaps Harry helped to establish a relationship with the Goblins in which the sword was returned with the understanding that should it be needed at Hogwarts, it would consistently return to a Gryffindor champion.