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> Harry Potter... Heir of Slytherin
Percival Wulfric...
post Jun 26 2009, 01:49 PM
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I believe that Harry could be the heir of Slytherin. It is confirmed in DH that harry is a descendant of the Peverells (ignotus, to be exact). In HBP, we see Marvolo Gaunt with the ressurection stone in a ring. He believes it to be a family heirloom of Slytherin's. We know that it is not, but this ring offers us a different clue to harry's ancestry. Marvolo obtained the ring as an heirloom, so we know it in fact was passed down in his family, which is the Slytherin line. The way that Marvolo remarks that the peverell coat of arms is on it, it seems that he means that the peverells themselves were also a Slytherin descendant family. If that is true, then that would make Harry a descendant of Slytherin. In COS, we assume he could open the Chamber because he is a parslemouth, but it is said that only a true heir of slytherin could open it, and we know that there are parslemouths outside of Slytherin's descendants. This theory requires some assuming, but i believe it to be plausible.
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whitewolf
post Jul 3 2009, 12:30 PM
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QUOTE (Percival Wulfric Brian @ Jun 26 2009, 02:49 PM) *
I believe that Harry could be the heir of Slytherin. It is confirmed in DH that harry is a descendant of the Peverells (ignotus, to be exact). In HBP, we see Marvolo Gaunt with the ressurection stone in a ring. He believes it to be a family heirloom of Slytherin's. We know that it is not, but this ring offers us a different clue to harry's ancestry. Marvolo obtained the ring as an heirloom, so we know it in fact was passed down in his family, which is the Slytherin line. The way that Marvolo remarks that the peverell coat of arms is on it, it seems that he means that the peverells themselves were also a Slytherin descendant family. If that is true, then that would make Harry a descendant of Slytherin. In COS, we assume he could open the Chamber because he is a parslemouth, but it is said that only a true heir of slytherin could open it, and we know that there are parslemouths outside of Slytherin's descendants. This theory requires some assuming, but i believe it to be plausible.

Agreed that Harry may be a relative of Slytherin, beacuse if your look at the geneolgy map in wiki ypu can see connection between Guants and Potters. You also see that Weasley's mother was a Black, which makes him related but not a heir. One can be related without being an heir. Guant migh have been a direct descendant of Slytherin's who was a grandson of say a child of Pervell's while Harry's parentage might have descended from another. For instance, a brother and a sister grow up, marry and have children. While thier children and grandchildren will be related, only those children directly descended from the each original grandparent can be considered an heir or direct hier. As for only an heir of Slytherin could open the chamber, I submit that the chamber was not close or how could Ginny (then later Ron and Hermione ) gotten in. The Parslemouth was a side-effect of Voldermort's infection, it disappeared after his death, but yes, there are indications that other can learn it, but it became a trait of "dark wizards" because of Slytherin. Finally, there maybe another explaination about the possession of the ring. Could it, like the Wand, been stolen? The cloak's owner survived until a very old age, and his cloak was handed down his line, but the Wand and ring had nowhere to descend except to the third brother who would have known that death would have assume the he was near or about these objects. My guess is that old Ignotus stayed clear of these things simply because he knew that death would use them to track him. Conclusion: Harry relative, but hier of Slytherin. These are just some theories to ponder. Please feel free to discuss. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/highfive.gif)

This post has been edited by whitewolf: Jul 3 2009, 12:38 PM
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Percival Wulfric...
post Jul 4 2009, 12:34 PM
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QUOTE (whitewolf @ Jul 3 2009, 01:30 PM) *
Agreed that Harry may be a relative of Slytherin, beacuse if your look at the geneolgy map in wiki ypu can see connection between Guants and Potters. You also see that Weasley's mother was a Black, which makes him related but not a heir. One can be related without being an heir. Guant migh have been a direct descendant of Slytherin's who was a grandson of say a child of Pervell's while Harry's parentage might have descended from another. For instance, a brother and a sister grow up, marry and have children. While thier children and grandchildren will be related, only those children directly descended from the each original grandparent can be considered an heir or direct hier. As for only an heir of Slytherin could open the chamber, I submit that the chamber was not close or how could Ginny (then later Ron and Hermione ) gotten in. The Parslemouth was a side-effect of Voldermort's infection, it disappeared after his death, but yes, there are indications that other can learn it, but it became a trait of "dark wizards" because of Slytherin. Finally, there maybe another explaination about the possession of the ring. Could it, like the Wand, been stolen? The cloak's owner survived until a very old age, and his cloak was handed down his line, but the Wand and ring had nowhere to descend except to the third brother who would have known that death would have assume the he was near or about these objects. My guess is that old Ignotus stayed clear of these things simply because he knew that death would use them to track him. Conclusion: Harry relative, but hier of Slytherin. These are just some theories to ponder. Please feel free to discuss. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/highfive.gif)


The big question here is how did the ring come into the possession of Marvolo Gaunt. He acts as if it was a family heirloom, but the way the story of the three brothers is told, it seems the stone was just left behind when the 2nd brother killed himself. Maybe one of Marvolo Gaunts ancestors found it and passed it down in his family line. It just bothers me the way Marvolo claims that the peverell coat of arms is on the ring, as if that proves that it is a slytherin heirloom
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whitewolf
post Jul 4 2009, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE (Percival Wulfric Brian @ Jul 4 2009, 01:34 PM) *
The big question here is how did the ring come into the possession of Marvolo Gaunt. He acts as if it was a family heirloom, but the way the story of the three brothers is told, it seems the stone was just left behind when the 2nd brother killed himself. Maybe one of Marvolo Gaunts ancestors found it and passed it down in his family line. It just bothers me the way Marvolo claims that the peverell coat of arms is on the ring, as if that proves that it is a slytherin heirloom


I'm going to have check the HBP, but I think there is no real explanation for Marvolo's possession of the ring. We also only have his word that he is an hier of Slytherin, and his possession of the ring connects Slytherin with Pervell because of the coat of arms. This connection is why we all assume that Harry is related to Slytherin's line and because of the incident in the COS. However, I submit that it was Harry's connection to Voldermort that was at play here and not so much a Slytherin one. How an "apparent heir" of Slytherin's got one of the Hallows is a mystery. We are again assuming that it was passed down the line as was the cloak.
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Percival Wulfric...
post Jul 6 2009, 12:52 PM
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QUOTE (whitewolf @ Jul 4 2009, 08:55 PM) *
I'm going to have check the HBP, but I think there is no real explanation for Marvolo's possession of the ring. We also only have his word that he is an hier of Slytherin, and his possession of the ring connects Slytherin with Pervell because of the coat of arms. This connection is why we all assume that Harry is related to Slytherin's line and because of the incident in the COS. However, I submit that it was Harry's connection to Voldermort that was at play here and not so much a Slytherin one. How an "apparent heir" of Slytherin's got one of the Hallows is a mystery. We are again assuming that it was passed down the line as was the cloak.


If only there was a little less assuming involved here. lol
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whitewolf
post Jul 7 2009, 02:15 PM
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QUOTE (Percival Wulfric Brian @ Jul 6 2009, 01:52 PM) *
If only there was a little less assuming involved here. lol

From HBP: Gaunt shows Ogden the ring claiming it has been his family's possession for centuries, with no mention of how. As proof of his ancestory he only offers the locket of Slytherin around Merope's neck. In DH we hear the story of the gifts of death, but the only one that we know of that stayed with it's owner and beyond was the cloak; we know how it passed from father to son, and so on. We, like Dumberdore, can only give our best guess on how the ring ended up where it did, but as for the question of heir-ship, I still contend that it is all relative. Harry's connection to Pervell is cloak, but connection to Slytherin was all circumstantial. We know that Voldermort was connected to Slytherin through Gaunt, but the only real connection Harry had was through his connection to Voldermort. In fact the Parseltongue trait, which was suppose to be a tie to Slytherin or "dark wizards" was never used after Voldermort's death (DH). So, we can only assume (yes, I said it) that the Pervell connection is a relative connection and not a direct connection, especially if we take Gaunt's word that they were the "last descendants of Slytherin". (HBP) Unless the Potters were descendent from Morfin (which we doubt) Harry was a relative of Slytherin(maybe) and not an heir. But that's only a guess. LOL
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Percival Wulfric...
post Jul 10 2009, 04:42 PM
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QUOTE (whitewolf @ Jul 7 2009, 03:15 PM) *
From HBP: Gaunt shows Ogden the ring claiming it has been his family's possession for centuries, with no mention of how. As proof of his ancestory he only offers the locket of Slytherin around Merope's neck. In DH we hear the story of the gifts of death, but the only one that we know of that stayed with it's owner and beyond was the cloak; we know how it passed from father to son, and so on. We, like Dumberdore, can only give our best guess on how the ring ended up where it did, but as for the question of heir-ship, I still contend that it is all relative. Harry's connection to Pervell is cloak, but connection to Slytherin was all circumstantial. We know that Voldermort was connected to Slytherin through Gaunt, but the only real connection Harry had was through his connection to Voldermort. In fact the Parseltongue trait, which was suppose to be a tie to Slytherin or "dark wizards" was never used after Voldermort's death (DH). So, we can only assume (yes, I said it) that the Pervell connection is a relative connection and not a direct connection, especially if we take Gaunt's word that they were the "last descendants of Slytherin". (HBP) Unless the Potters were descendent from Morfin (which we doubt) Harry was a relative of Slytherin(maybe) and not an heir. But that's only a guess. LOL


LOL. Well DD does tell Harry that Voldy is Slytherin's last descendant....
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whitewolf
post Jul 11 2009, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE (Percival Wulfric Brian @ Jul 10 2009, 05:42 PM) *
LOL. Well DD does tell Harry that Voldy is Slytherin's last descendant....


So there you go! (smiles) It's all relative?
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Percival Wulfric...
post Jul 12 2009, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE (whitewolf @ Jul 11 2009, 01:41 PM) *
So there you go! (smiles) It's all relative?


I would have to agree
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whitewolf
post Jul 13 2009, 12:15 PM
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"but it is said that only a true heir of slytherin could open it", and we know that there are parslemouths outside of Slytherin's descendants.

Here's a kick in the head: I was watching the COS movie and realize that Tom Riddle told Harry that Ginny opened the Chamber of Secrets. At first I just assumed that it was cinematic license, then I got to thinking and checked the book. Sure enough it says " Ginny Weasley opened the Chamber of Secrets." So either the assumption that only a true heir of Slytherin's can open the chamber is false, or the Weasley's or Prewitts (Molly's people) are Slytherin descendents.
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Heart of Gold
post Jul 14 2009, 03:09 PM
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And yet Ron opened it in DH simply by repeating the words (in parseltounge) Harry used to open the locket. I see it as no great stretch to assume that he who must not be named simply "possessed" Ginny and through her spoke the necessary words to open the chamber. In fact, it was so obvious to me that I have not questioned it since I read the first read the CoS all those years ago....
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whitewolf
post Jul 15 2009, 10:53 AM
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QUOTE (Heart of Gold @ Jul 14 2009, 04:09 PM) *
And yet Ron opened it in DH simply by repeating the words (in parseltounge) Harry used to open the locket. I see it as no great stretch to assume that he who must not be named simply "possessed" Ginny and through her spoke the necessary words to open the chamber. In fact, it was so obvious to me that I have not questioned it since I read the first read the CoS all those years ago....


So are we confirming or denying that the Weasley's are Slytherin descendents or not? Or are you saying it's the possession alone that got Ginny in, thus the portion of Voldermort in Harry is what got him in. Then the question arises of how does that answer Ron?
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Heart of Gold
post Jul 15 2009, 12:34 PM
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Sorry if that was a vague reply. I do not think that the Weasleys are Slytherin's descendents at all. All that the Weasleys did was access the chamber. Riddle, being Slytherin's heir, had already re-opened the chamber when he was a student.
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Percival Wulfric...
post Jul 22 2009, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE (Heart of Gold @ Jul 15 2009, 01:34 PM) *
Sorry if that was a vague reply. I do not think that the Weasleys are Slytherin's descendents at all. All that the Weasleys did was access the chamber. Riddle, being Slytherin's heir, had already re-opened the chamber when he was a student.


You make a good point about Ron opening it but i still don't understand exactly what you conclude from it. You think that since Tom Riddle reopened it in CoS that any parselmouth can open it now?
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sparkle093
post Feb 22 2010, 10:08 PM
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QUOTE (Percival Wulfric Brian @ Jun 26 2009, 01:49 PM) *
I believe that Harry could be the heir of Slytherin. It is confirmed in DH that harry is a descendant of the Peverells (ignotus, to be exact). In HBP, we see Marvolo Gaunt with the ressurection stone in a ring. He believes it to be a family heirloom of Slytherin's. We know that it is not, but this ring offers us a different clue to harry's ancestry. Marvolo obtained the ring as an heirloom, so we know it in fact was passed down in his family, which is the Slytherin line. The way that Marvolo remarks that the peverell coat of arms is on it, it seems that he means that the peverells themselves were also a Slytherin descendant family. If that is true, then that would make Harry a descendant of Slytherin. In COS, we assume he could open the Chamber because he is a parslemouth, but it is said that only a true heir of slytherin could open it, and we know that there are parslemouths outside of Slytherin's descendants. This theory requires some assuming, but i believe it to be plausible.


It is possible but not for sure because The second Peverell brother (the one that owned the ring) or one of his descendants could have married Slytherin's descendant, which makes the third brother (Harry's ancestor) not blood related to Slytherin which means Harry isn't either.
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